Engine oil analysis

[advgaia]

Included on this post is a few photos of the engine survey of the Volvo MD11C motor that apparently starts/runs/idles but overheats at around 2500 RPM. The engine shuts down and will restart immediately. The boat is a :Pearson 323 1978, hull #95.

As the new owner (Nov 23) the boat is on the hard and the engine was winterized by the boatyard. It is still winterized as I've done nothing to it other than visual inspection. Inspecting the boat further, I've noticed that the raw water intake is essentially blocked by marine growth. That could be/is probably a legit source to correct for overheating problems.

Do any of you mechanics here know how to read engine oil analysis? I have included them, as shown. Thanks. Any guidance or suggestions would be great.

[SailingHarmonie]

If the oil in the engine is of unknown brand and age, an analysis is not very useful. Follow the recommendations to change the oils and resample when you change them next after 200 hours.

[Tsuru]

I was unable to decipher your engine oil analysis but included a copy of our last report on Aurora. I’ve used Blackstone Laboratories for some time and they seem to cater more to a recreational user. What I mean by that is they give the data and what they determine to be an average for engines like or similar to yours. They also provide a short description of the report and advise areas of concern. I’m sure there are other similar services.

The hard growth on the raw water strainer certainly isn’t making your engine run cooler but from my experience I’d suspect the growth probably continues into the engine exchanger. It probably warrants additional investigation (like visually examining your heat exchanger). I’m not familiar with your engine but often you can remove end caps and look for restrictions. Also this could be a good candidate for a chemical cleaning treatment like Barnacle Buster. I’ve personally used SaltAway with good results.
Good luck,

[jamhass]

No idea re the oil analysis, but ...

Regarding the overheating:

As you are on the hard, this is a good time to go over the entire raw water side of the cooling system. Remove the HX (and oil cooler if fitted) and take them to a good radiator shop for cleaning, evaluation and repair as needed. Similarly, Remove the water pump">raw water pump and inspect and refurbish as needed. Its a Volvo, so be very careful of all the fiddly-little seals, making sure to not inadvertently leave any old ones in place. Don 't forget to check the condition of the hoses AND the exhaust elbow, dealing with both as appropriate.

Yes, its a PITA, but a bit of effort now can save you a world of grief out in a seaway. Or when passing under bridges in the Baltimore area!

[advgaia]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

If the oil in the engine is of unknown brand and age, an analysis is not very useful. Follow the recommendations to change the oils and resample when you change them next after 200 hours.

The oil was Shell 15-40. According to the notes that accompanied the survey.

[advgaia]

Originally Posted by Tsuru

I was unable to decipher your engine oil analysis but included a copy of our last report on Aurora. I’ve used Blackstone Laboratories for some time and they seem to cater more to a recreational user. What I mean by that is they give the data and what they determine to be an average for engines like or similar to yours. They also provide a short description of the report and advise areas of concern. I’m sure there are other similar services.

The hard growth on the raw water strainer certainly isn’t making your engine run cooler but from my experience I’d suspect the growth probably continues into the engine exchanger. It probably warrants additional investigation (like visually examining your heat exchanger). I’m not familiar with your engine but often you can remove end caps and look for restrictions. Also this could be a good candidate for a chemical cleaning treatment like Barnacle Buster. I’ve personally used SaltAway with good results.
Good luck,

Thank you for the recommendation. All of the maintenance required will be done as I bring it out of winter hibernation. I was told that Muriatic acid is a good flush for old marine diesels.
I'd like to test it once maintained while on the hard. Is there a good way of maybe attaching a hose to the intake line. I ask because I'd like to get at least a good season out of her before I repower if needed. The Volvo Penta MD11C is obsolete and parts are very had to find.

[skipperpete]

I thought that MD11C’s were direct cooling, no heat exchanger?? Or has this one had one fitted? The oil analysis indicated that the high iron level in the transmission oil could mean worn clutch plates but I thought MD11C’s had a bronze cone MS gearbox. A photo of the engine would help with progress on solving the overheating problem, yes the partially clogged raw water intake is a contender but the mixer elbow could also cause the same problem.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by advgaia

The oil was Shell 15-40. According to the notes that accompanied the survey.

Maybe I missed it, but I saw no reference to that on the oil analysis. Since different oil brands have different additive packages, with different trace metals already in them, it it impossible to know what the “normal” range is if you don’t know what the oil started with!

I am used to seeing the results presented with a “normal” range to help you interpret the results. Honestly, I’d use a different lab with more user friendly reports.

With the exception of things like sodium chloride, and antifreeze, the utility of a single point oil analysis is extremely limited. You are watching for trends.

[marcjsmith]

Contaminants are usually Silicone, Sodium potassium, coolant, water

Additives Magnesium, calcium, barium, Phosphorus, Zinv, Molybdenum, Boron

Phystical Test would Viscosity, Fuel and soot

Metals Iron Chromium Lead Copper, Tin, Aluminium, Nickle, Silver, Titanium, Vanadium.

here is an oil sample from my boat engine and generator the generator is ok engine is ugly... I'm going to resample the engine in another month or so. as I feel I did not get a good sample. I did not clean out my oil suction can before removing the oil.

I do believe that my perkins has many more hours than the indicated hours (i replaced a broken hour meter). My perk was also locked up when I purchased the boat. and we got it freed up and other than and elevated service interval and maintenance, coupled with easy running i've done nothing to the engine. I am contemplating a switch to a heavier weight oil at the next change.

I have also included an oil sample from one of our generators at work so you can see what a good sample might look like.

[FPNC]

With a 45 year old engine that runs well, all you are looking for is salt water or anti freeze or diesel fuel in the oil.

[dannc]

Another recommendation for Blackstone Labs which I have been using for close to 20 years.


One of the good things they do, is compare the sample with the samples in their data base. Hopefully, the have other samples from your engine. They also show the other samples results you have sent so you can see trends.

[CarlF]

A single oil analysis is just about useless for your engine. The main thing you care about (water or diesel) can be felt on your fingers. For other things you need to compare it with previous analysis from the same engine. Ideally since new. I think it’s a waste of money on smalll, old diesels. If the engine was 600hp it would be a different story.

And oil analysis won’t help with overheating. You need to remove the heat exchanger core and give it a good cleaning and inspection. Expect it to be a challenge to get it off and you will likely need to replace end caps and certainly gaskets. Best to send the core out for cleaning - or just replace.

After it’s back together flush and replace the coolant. If you don't know what kind of coolant is in there, flush three times with water as incompatible coolants can form a gel. After doing all this if you still have overheating, replace the thermostat.

Also remove the exhaust elbow. Unless it is bronze or stainless, it likely needs to be replaced. They rarely last more than 10 years.

I’d also replace all of the hoses on the engine (both fuel and water). If 20+ years old they could be delaminating inside and blocking flow. And obviously, clean the strainer and thruhull of any growth.

In other areas, replace the engine mounts if over 10 years old, check and likely replace the cutlass bearing, and repack the stuffing box. Have the engine aligned by a pro first on the hard and then again once in the water with the rig tightened. Watch him so you know how to do it the next time.

If there’s over 2000 hours on the engine remove the injectors and send them out to be cleaned and tested. Just about anyplace that does diesel trucks can put them on their test bench for little cost.

[advgaia]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Maybe I missed it, but I saw no reference to that on the oil analysis. Since different oil brands have different additive packages, with different trace metals already in them, it it impossible to know what the “normal” range is if you don’t know what the oil started with!

I am used to seeing the results presented with a “normal” range to help you interpret the results. Honestly, I’d use a different lab with more user friendly reports.

With the exception of things like sodium chloride, and antifreeze, the utility of a single point oil analysis is extremely limited. You are watching for trends.

(some of) the notes on the survey weren't included on my post. sorry. But, yes, Shell 15/40 was mentioned as the weight Brand of oil. As for the analysis, this was done by the PO. I agree that the scope is very limited.

[advgaia]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

Contaminants are usually Silicone, Sodium potassium, coolant, water

Additives Magnesium, calcium, barium, Phosphorus, Zinv, Molybdenum, Boron

Phystical Test would Viscosity, Fuel and soot

Metals Iron Chromium Lead Copper, Tin, Aluminium, Nickle, Silver, Titanium, Vanadium.

here is an oil sample from my boat engine and generator the generator is ok engine is ugly... I'm going to resample the engine in another month or so. as I feel I did not get a good sample. I did not clean out my oil suction can before removing the oil.

I do believe that my perkins has many more hours than the indicated hours (i replaced a broken hour meter). My perk was also locked up when I purchased the boat. and we got it freed up and other than and elevated service interval and maintenance, coupled with easy running i've done nothing to the engine. I am contemplating a switch to a heavier weight oil at the next change.

I have also included an oil sample from one of our generators at work so you can see what a good sample might look like.

Marc, these seem to be some good reports. I noticed that you're in VA, and want to ask how you found this lab? Was this by NAPA, or an independent service center using NAPA branded invoices?

[advgaia]

Originally Posted by CarlF

A single oil analysis is just about useless for your engine. The main thing you care about (water or diesel) can be felt on your fingers. For other things you need to compare it with previous analysis from the same engine. Ideally since new. I think it’s a waste of money on smalll, old diesels. If the engine was 600hp it would be a different story.

And oil analysis won’t help with overheating. You need to remove the heat exchanger core and give it a good cleaning and inspection. Expect it to be a challenge to get it off and you will likely need to replace end caps and certainly gaskets. Best to send the core out for cleaning - or just replace.

After it’s back together flush and replace the coolant. If you don't know what kind of coolant is in there, flush three times with water as incompatible coolants can form a gel. After doing all this if you still have overheating, replace the thermostat.

Also remove the exhaust elbow. Unless it is bronze or stainless, it likely needs to be replaced. They rarely last more than 10 years.

I’d also replace all of the hoses on the engine (both fuel and water). If 20+ years old they could be delaminating inside and blocking flow. And obviously, clean the strainer and thruhull of any growth.

In other areas, replace the engine mounts if over 10 years old, check and likely replace the cutlass bearing, and repack the stuffing box. Have the engine aligned by a pro first on the hard and then again once in the water with the rig tightened. Watch him so you know how to do it the next time.

If there’s over 2000 hours on the engine remove the injectors and send them out to be cleaned and tested. Just about anyplace that does diesel trucks can put them on their test bench for little cost.

I hear you on the maintenance needed. As for the fuel lines, the PO replaced the copper with rubber by suggestion of the survey. I'll have to re-read the notes as a guide....