Racor 500 Question?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by cheoah

My primary fuel pump is a Facet, has worked well.


Maine, is that a Parker/racor gauge? I've seen some cheaper ones out there, your thoughts?

I bought it from Nick at Sailors Solutions..

[capt.cam]

Does anyone have experience with the KTI SYSTEMS fuel polishers? There's some awesome ideas and designs here but these guys have some pretty sweet systems. Dual racors with gauges and alarm etc? They are basically plug and play.

[chouliha]

Mark is correct about using the 2m filter and having it void engine warranties. We had been running a 2m for 15 years in our Racor and never needing to changing out the spin on engine filter which was 10m But then we pulled the old Westy out and installed a yanmar. The yanmar rep made a big deal out of not using the 2m even when I told him we had 2 boxes of 2m filters stored onboard. Heck we then had to trade the 24 filters out for 10m.

But to put it in perspective we only have a 30 gallon tank, cruising full time and haven't changed the filter since we installed the engine 4 years ago. We always filter everything going into the tank and use some type of Biobor product. We are religious about clean fuel and keeping the tank topped up. When we buy fuel out of 55 gallons drums we are even more anal and filter it going into the jerry jugs and then again into the tank.

Now I gone and done It and put the hex on myself!

Cheers

Chuck

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by boden36

I have just ordered one of these. 1 gpm gear pump. DC gear pump

Regards,

Richard.

Richard, before you install that pump, perhaps verify that it is really continuous duty, which if fuel polishing is what you want, you will need. Some vdc pumps will overheat and trip the internal thermal protection after a half hour or so of usage.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by colemj

A 10um on the polisher as well as the primaries would be fine. I chose 30 on the polisher because I count on it to clean very dirty fuel should we ever encounter it. Then the 10um primaries would take care of the engine itself.

Besides, the housings are the same - you just swap out dirt-cheap filter elements in the filtration size you prefer. So no need to worry or decide up front about it. Put in a 10um and keep a 30um element on hand for if you get a really bad tank of fuel. That's such a good idea that I think I will steal it for our system!

I don't understand the 10um-2um statement. Are you thinking about series elements in the primaries? I think that is overkill. We use 10um in the primaries and use the spin on engine secondary for finer filtration.

Again, 20um particles are what damages diesels. You will essentially get the vast majority of those with 10um primaries and the secondaries will take care of the 1% of them that make it through the primaries. Anything smaller is fine for the engine. Anything larger should be taken out with the polishing system.

2um primaries will not only clog faster, they are actually warned against (and not covered under warranty) by most engine manufacturers. Check your engine owner manual and I bet it says to use no finer than 10um elements in the primary filter.

Mark

When I bought Delfin, she was an empty hull with around 1,500 gallons of fuel on board. 4 years later, we re-launched and I used that fuel over the next 12 months. Polishing with 30 micron, transferring to a day tank at 10 and then passing through 2 micron before the fuel got to the OEM filter worked fine. The 2 micron filter never clogged and I changed them for drill after that first year. The point is that if the fuel is polished, then running it through a 2 micron is sensible and I have to wonder what the basis to void a warranty would be on the basis of clean fuel.

[DeepFrz]

Sounds like bad info to me. The new motors demand clean fuel. By the way all filters should be changed at least once a year.

[chouliha]

Just curious why you say that all filters should be changed yearly?
Chuck

[colemj]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Sounds like bad info to me.

It is explicitly stated in my Volvo manual that primary filters should be no smaller filtration than 10um and using smaller will void the warranty.

Sounds like Yanmar stated the same thing for chouliha's new engine.

Could be bad info though…

Mark

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by colemj

It is explicitly stated in my Volvo manual that primary filters should be no smaller filtration than 10um and using smaller will void the warranty.

Could be bad info though…

Mark

I'm sure it's not bad info, but I can't figure out why this would cause a warranty failure. Anybody have a theory?

[colemj]

Maybe the suction pressure on the lift pump is too high? Maybe there is an increased chance of flow being too low to cool injectors? Just guesses, but I have a vague memory of an entire thread about this in the past.

Mark

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by colemj

Maybe the suction pressure on the lift pump is too high? Maybe there is an increased chance of flow being too low to cool injectors? Just guesses, but I have a vague memory of an entire thread about this in the past.

Mark

That has the ring of plausibility I suppose, at least under some circumstances. One thing to note is that I don't think anyone would recommend using 2 micron filters as the only thing between the tank and the OEM filter. If they are being presented with filtered fuel to 10 microns beforehand, I can't imagine a problem. Most people don't have that kind of filter array, so I guess the sensible recommendation is filter to 10 primary, then pass it off to a 2 micron and/or OEM. If your warranty precludes the 2 micron in between, don't use a 2. I'll check on my CAT, as I don't think it has that limitation, which tells me it isn't a universal and recognized bad practice.

Besides, if a clogged 2 micron filter voids a warranty, why wouldn't a clogged OEM filter do the same thing? Still puzzling...

Thanks Mark.

[colemj]

Most engine manufacturers don't tell you the filtration size of their secondaries. I have seen numbers ranging from 2-10um, with a lot at 5um. Perhaps they don't want a 2um ahead of that. It is also a telling thing if they feel the final filtration size doesn't need to be any smaller than 5um or so.

Like I said, it is the 20um particles that are harmful for diesels. Anything smaller is just fine for them and will burn/pass right through.

Mark

[chouliha]

The Yanmar 3JH4E uses a 10m filter according to the certified Yanmar mechanic that I purchased the engine from in Mexico. But he also said using the 2 micron filter will void the warranty as it will cause the lift pump to work to hard. I think that is total BS... If I am pulling zero vacuum with 2m or 10m what's the difference.

With regards to filter change every year, I communicated with a Racor engineer about 8 years ago while back in the states and told him I heard that I needed to change filters every year as if not they would begin to break down. He asked about my filtering system and when he heard I was using a vacuum gauge and could tell immediately if a filter needed to be changed he said only change when I saw the vacuum creep up close to the marked vacuum for my engine. I asked him what if that only happens every 7 years? No problem filter will be just fine.

Chuck

[colemj]

Originally Posted by chouliha

I think that is total BS... If I am pulling zero vacuum with 2m or 10m what's the difference.

I think the concern is that the 2um will start to fill and pull at some point well before the 10um that the engine is designed for. Why filter more than the engine requires if it doesn't matter to the engine?

Mark

[DeepFrz]

I remember reading an article by Steve D'Antonio in Passagemaker some years ago where he quoted engine manufacturers as saying that the most damage to engine fuel pumps (HP) and injectors was from particulate between 5 and 10 um. It has been stated here that most damage was caused by larger particles. If he was right (and I have no idea whether he is or not) then the finer filters should be standard, but only if the fuel has been kept very clean. I can't for the life of me understand why an engine manufacturer would void the warranty over cleaner fuel. One thing that comes to mind is misinterpretation from Japanese to English. I remember how bad the service manuals used to be for Japanese products. Note: snide remark here (Much the same as the French manuals for certain auto pilots are today.)