Disposing of diesel?

[Jdege]

I bought a boat, last fall, and this week I finally had it trailered to a marina on Lake Pepin (Mississippi River, 60 miles downstream of St. Paul, MN).

It's a 37-foot Vaitses/Herreshoff ketch on a trailer that was custom built for it.



And here's the thing - the driver said that it was unstable at speed. That when he got up over 50 mph it would start to sway. That's usually a sign of insufficient tongue weight.

Now the boat supposedly weighs 12,000 pounds, though I've not yet weighed it, and the trailer is rated at 15,000. So we should have a tongue weight of 1200 - 1500 pounds. And we seem to have somewhat less than that.

Which means that either the trailer was incorrectly designed, and the previous owner didn't mention that, or there is something about the weight distribution that is off.

I've put essentially nothing into the boat - just some hand tools that are in the cabin, directly over the axles, and they can't be causing the problem. But the boat does have nearly full fuel tanks. It has two 30-gallon tanks, and there's at least fifty gallons in them. And the tanks are placed halfway back under the cockpit, well behind the axles. I'm thinking that the extra 400 pounds of weight back there could easily explain why the tongue is light.

In other words, it looks like the trailer was designed to carry an empty boat. Which makes sense.

Now this isn't a boat you keep in the driveway and take up to the cabin every weekend. It's the kind of boat you keep in a marina and move maybe twice a season. It's going to be in the marina it's in through the winter and through next year. That said, I could easily see myself taking it up to the Apostle Islands, on Lake Superior, the season after that. That's 225 miles, and I'd be towing it myself, rather than paying someone who knew what they were doing to do it.

And if my understanding of the weight distribution is correct, that means I'm going to have to empty the diesel tanks before the trip.

And that gets me around to the actual question - empty them where? Siphon them into jerry cans? 50 gallons is a lot of jerry cans, and they're hardly cheap.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jdege

I bought a boat, last fall, and this week I finally had it trailered to a marina on Lake Pepin (Mississippi River, 60 miles downstream of St. Paul, MN).

It's a 37-foot Vaitses/Herreshoff ketch on a trailer that was custom built for it.



And here's the thing - the driver said that it was unstable at speed. That when he got up over 50 mph it would start to sway. That's usually a sign of insufficient tongue weight.

Now the boat supposedly weighs 12,000 pounds, though I've not yet weighed it, and the trailer is rated at 15,000. So we should have a tongue weight of 1200 - 1500 pounds. And we seem to have somewhat less than that.

Which means that either the trailer was incorrectly designed, and the previous owner didn't mention that, or there is something about the weight distribution that is off.

I've put essentially nothing into the boat - just some hand tools that are in the cabin, directly over the axles, and they can't be causing the problem. But the boat does have nearly full fuel tanks. It has two 30-gallon tanks, and there's at least fifty gallons in them. And the tanks are placed halfway back under the cockpit, well behind the axles. I'm thinking that the extra 400 pounds of weight back there could easily explain why the tongue is light.

In other words, it looks like the trailer was designed to carry an empty boat. Which makes sense.

Now this isn't a boat you keep in the driveway and take up to the cabin every weekend. It's the kind of boat you keep in a marina and move maybe twice a season. It's going to be in the marina it's in through the winter and through next year. That said, I could easily see myself taking it up to the Apostle Islands, on Lake Superior, the season after that. That's 225 miles, and I'd be towing it myself, rather than paying someone who knew what they were doing to do it.

And if my understanding of the weight distribution is correct, that means I'm going to have to empty the diesel tanks before the trip.

And that gets me around to the actual question - empty them where? Siphon them into jerry cans? 50 gallons is a lot of jerry cans, and they're hardly cheap.

Hi, if it's all about weight distribution when on the trailer as distinct from when in the water, would a collapsable bladder arangement mounted in an ideal location to relocate the weight work, pump out of the tanks into the bladder for towing then back to the tanks for the water time and stow the bladder in the tow vehicle or elsewhere until next needed.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Hi, if it's all about weight distribution when on the trailer as distinct from when in the water, would a collapsable bladder arangement mounted in an ideal location to relocate the weight work, pump out of the tanks into the bladder for towing then back to the tanks for the water time and stow the bladder in the tow vehicle or elsewhere until next needed.

That's actually a reasonable idea. It would save me having to buy more diesel when I get to the next marina.

[Chotu]

I second the idea of the second tank located where you want the weight. An electric fuel pump for that and it becomes as easy as flipping a switch.

Any closeup pics of that tabernacle mast? Have you stepped it yet?

[Jammer]

Some local advice for you having towed heavy trailers all over Minnesota.

1) Weigh the boat and trailer. There's a platform scale at the grain elevator in Goodhue where they leave the display on 24/7. It's free and there's all kinds of room to turn. It's 20 miles from Lake City and right on the way to St. Paul (if you take US52). There might be one closer to Lake City on 61 somewhere but that's the one I use. You pull onto the scale with just the truck, record the weight, then pull on with the truck and trailer and record the weight, and then after you unhook you weigh the truck by itself. The rest is just arithmetic. Do it next time you move the boat.


Weighing the trailer and truck seems intimidating to people who haven't done it but it is no big deal and it is important to have the facts before you start making adjustments.


2) Once you get the tongue weight right, a weight distributing hitch will make a huge difference because it will help keep the steer axle of the pickup loaded. At 12,000 pounds this is important on any pickup but particularly so with a truck with a shorter wheelbase (short bed). If you're going to drive to Bayfield you need weight distribution.


3) Edel Oil Recycling in Northfield will pump out your diesel tank and dispose of the contents for you. Last time I had him out he charged $75 regardless of quantity. He's busy and scheduling is something of a problem. You have to give him access for the suction hose from his truck or some other reasonably fast way to get the fuel out. Otherwise you can take it in portable containers to the household hazardous waste collection point in your county of residence for free. I use the jugs that scoopable cat litter comes in for that, they're about 3 gallons and work fine, and are free because I have a cat.


You can also use 5 gallon buckets with lids, or the 2.5 gallon jugs that are commonly used for motor oil, transmission fluid, etc. Ask a friend who farms or has a restaurant or construction business, they usually throw some away every month.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Some local advice for you having towed heavy trailers all over Minnesota.

1) Weigh the boat and trailer. There's a platform scale at the grain elevator in Goodhue where they leave the display on 24/7. It's free and there's all kinds of room to turn. It's 20 miles from Lake City and right on the way to St. Paul (if you take US52). There might be one closer to Lake City on 61 somewhere but that's the one I use. You pull onto the scale with just the truck, record the weight, then pull on with the truck and trailer and record the weight, and then after you unhook you weigh the truck by itself. The rest is just arithmetic. Do it next time you move the boat.

Weighing the trailer and truck seems intimidating to people who haven't done it but it is no big deal and it is important to have the facts before you start making adjustments.

Thanks for this. I'll keep it mind the next time I move the boat or trailer.

Originally Posted by Jammer

Otherwise you can take it in portable containers to the household hazardous waste collection point in your county of residence for free.

If I'm pumping it into portable containers, I might as well pump it back into the tanks after the trip. Remember, there's nothing wrong with the diesel, except it's location.

[rwidman]

Adding or subtracting weight from the boat is the wrong solution.

Go to a public scale. Have the boat loaded as it will be normally loaded with fuel and other stuff. Pull onto the scale to where the wheels of the trailer are on the scale and the tongue jack of the trailer is over the scale. Get the weight.

Now put the tongue jack down (on the scale) and disconnect the tow vehicle. This will be the total weight of the trailer and fully loaded boat.

Subtract the first reading from the total and you have the tongue weight.

For a multi axle trailer, the tongue weight should be 5% - 7% of the total weight. If it is not, you need to adjust the tongue weight.

You can do this by moving the boat on the trailer or by moving the axles forward or backward as appropriate. Remember though, it's important to have the boat properly supported on the trailer.

I did this myself when I had a trailer boat, but if it seems intimidating, you could have a trailer shop do it.

[Spot]

Congrats on the boat. Have you/are you going to splash yet this year? A victory fall colors lap around Pepin sounds really nice. Do you have crew?

I once moved a 50hp full sized farm tractor between two farms 50 miles apart on a borrowed trailer and pickup. It was not well balanced and quite nerve racking.

The boat looks about dead center on the trailer. Moving the fuel forward would help. After that it may be weighing everything and doing some sort of calculation to see whether the axles need to move back a bit. Is there any adjust-ability built into the trailer design?

PS- to RW's comment, perhaps moving the fuel up front could be a problem if the boat is not framed under the sole or blocked on the trailer enough for the extra load.

[SailFastTri]

Sorry if this doesn't answer the OPs question.

To those who suggested going to a disposal site: Find a homeowner who heats with oil.
#2 home heating oil is interchangeable with diesel. Diesel is an acceptable replacement for home heating oil in virtually all furnaces.

[Jdege]

I splashed this morning. The stuffing box dripped for a couple of hours, but she seems dry, now.

She's only going to be in the water for a couple of weeks. I want to see how she handles under power, as I make decisions about what I'm going to do with her.

[Rotten Ricky]

Pls check the fuel in this new-to-you boat carefully - your life could depend on it. Should the fuel be in such poor condition that it is unwise to use for the engine, consider donating it to your fire department for them to use in practising putting out fuel fires.

Cheers, RR.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Any closeup pics of that tabernacle mast? Have you stepped it yet?

I took the masts down, by myself, I'm assuming I'll be able to get them back up again.

[sanibel sailor]

Isn't that a Meadowlark? If so, Herreshoff gives a displacement of 8,000 lbs.



Getting rid of old fuel is easy- post in craigslist "Free" section. Someone will come and collect it for you.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

Isn't that a Meadowlark? If so, Herreshoff gives a displacement of 8,000 lbs.

Herreshoff's original Meadow Lark was plans published in a book, built by amateurs around the world, meaning that his design weight was pretty much a guess.

Mine is by Alan Vaitses, who took Herreshoff's design, stretched it from 33 to 37 feet, and built it in fiberglass. He built something like 20 of them, each a little different, and the weights I've seen for them run from 10-12,000 pounds.

I will put it on a scale, when I get a chance.

[capn_billl]

I can usually get empty 20 or 50 gallon blue barrels for free, or nearly free that used to hold vegetable oil for restaurant fryers.