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Old 09-10-2020, 16:26   #46
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Yup tohatsu (I have one x 2 years and great) and Suzuki have 15hp 4 stroke EFI
I'm happy to see this technology trickling down.
I looked up the specs.
Yamaha Enduro, which is the beefy long lasting version of their 2T line weighs 38 kg (short shaft w/ prop).
Suzuki 15 EFI weighs 49kg without oil or propellor.

The Enduro 15 is right at my upper edge of what I can lift/carry. Another 11 (probably 13-14kg) is significant.

Not sure which one would last longer, but I would bet money it's the Enduro.

But to be fair, the Suzuki 20 EFI weighs exactly the same as the 15, so for that extra weight you can have another 5HP if desired.

Disclaimer: I have an Enduro 15 and if it was stolen tonight I would buy another one tomorrow ($2400 USD) where I'm located.

One other note, I feel that mixing oil/gas helps alleviate some poor petrol problems.

Tohatsu claims 43kg but doesn't specify if that includes oil and propeller.

Anyways thanks for enlightening me.
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Old 09-10-2020, 16:53   #47
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

I had a Suzuki 8hp 2-stroke oil injected (no mixing required) motor that was dramatically lighter than my 9.9 Yamaha 4-stroke, very reliable and twice as powerfull. Too bad I lost it to the bottom of Lake Ontario or I'm sure I'd still have it. I always keep my eye on the used market for another one.
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Old 09-10-2020, 17:14   #48
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

Depending on where you use the motor, maintainability might be the overriding issue. Most of where I’ve been in Latin America for the past 20 years, the number of mechanics that actually understand the fancy electronic systems varies from slim to none. The ones that can or would invest in any required test equipment or special tools is even smaller. Almost no vendor has a complete stock of anything because reordering that one out-of-stock fitting is more trouble than it's worth; they’ll wait until their next big order. Stocking specialized spare parts for motors bought in the US to comply with EPA regulations is justifiably far down on their worry list.

So the fisherman by Enduros by the handful. They don’t require special tools or test equipment. Even when you’re 12 hours by panga away from the nearest replacement bolt, there’s somebody who can probably get it working for a while. A friend in Ecuador needed to rebuild his Mercury 15. Ordering the gaskets from the US was 4-6 weeks and over $200. A guy working on the sidewalk took the motor completely apart, we went to the gasket shop and had an entire set custom made in 4 hours for $11. The whole job was $90. Just think about trying to do that with an EFI environmentally-conscious, 4-stroke.

If you’re using the motor in California or Florida, you’re in an entirely different world than a small fishing port in Ecuador or Nicaragua. You’re choice of equipment needs to take that difference into account.
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Old 09-10-2020, 22:06   #49
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

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Depending on where you use the motor, maintainability might be the overriding issue.

Byrick nailed the issue, at least for us. I hate the polluting nature of 2 strokes, but good luck finding parts or someone to repair your 4 stroke if you are cruising internationally/ remotely. Even the most remote villages in little islands off Papua New Guinea had spares for our Yamaha 2-stroke, because almost every fisherman uses them. If we were just cruising the USA, I'd choose a 4-stroke.
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Old 10-10-2020, 04:34   #50
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Re: 2 stroke of 4 stroke outboard

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... if you have a choice, get a motor that is the most common where you expect to cruise and need parts. In the Caribbean, Yamaha Enduro.
Indeed!
This goes for a lot of things. When in doubt, go with the local crowd - not because they are necessarily "right", but because parts and expertise will be more available.
(check the island dump to scavenge repair parts)
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:33   #51
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

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I see more Enduro 15’s than any other single type by at least 2:1. That has to mean something.
If you do a lot of low speed motoring then I would likely buy a four stroke. But I hate to buy any four stroke that isn’t fuel injected. Does anyone make a 154TFI?
Suzuki, and lighter than most 4 stroke 15HPs with carburettors.

https://www.suzukimarine.com.au/outb.../product/df15a
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:51   #52
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

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Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
I'm happy to see this technology trickling down.
I looked up the specs.
Yamaha Enduro, which is the beefy long lasting version of their 2T line weighs 38 kg (short shaft w/ prop).
Suzuki 15 EFI weighs 49kg without oil or propellor.
Where did you find those specs? https://www.suzukimarine.com.au/outb.../product/df15a lists the short shaft manual start at 44kg. Add 1kg for the oil.

I didn't know that these weights after given without prop. Are you sure about that?

Tohatsus 15hp is apparently a bit lighter than the Suzuki.

Paul
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:07   #53
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

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Originally Posted by toolbar View Post
Where did you find those specs? https://www.suzukimarine.com.au/outb.../product/df15a lists the short shaft manual start at 44kg. Add 1kg for the oil.

I didn't know that these weights after given without prop. Are you sure about that?

Tohatsus 15hp is apparently a bit lighter than the Suzuki.

Paul
http://www.suzukimarine.com/~/media/...Info-View1.pdf
I must have misread late last night. That was for electric start. 44kg for manual short shaft.
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:18   #54
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

I bought tohastsu since lighter. Probably because same specs as 9.9 so top of HP for block. Sounds like Suzuki is 15 hp based on 20 block
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:13   #55
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

Just look at what the big charter fleets use...they are all about most bang for the buck. I know DYC in the BVI's uses Tohatsu 2-strokers on just about every dingy. (Well, back in the day when humans were allowed to recreate there).

When we put our boat in charter with them last year they shipped a new RIB with a 4-stroke Honda. The DYC tech highly recommended replacing that dog with a well used Tohatsu 9.9. We've ran it ever since and been very reliable and for the most part smoke free.
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:34   #56
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

If regularly fed fuel with Ethanol, any dinghy size outboard with a carburetor (including Enduro's) will eventually have serious carburetor damage. Unlike the "old days", carb cleaner won't help. You have to remove the carburetor and have it ultrasonically cleaned overnight at an outboard shop or buy a new carburetor.

North of Virginia on the East Coast of the US it is almost impossible to find ethanol free gas. So if the OP plans to cruise there, he should get an outboard with EFI (which are all four stroke)
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Old 10-10-2020, 14:28   #57
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

Tohatsu 4 cycle 6 HP=57 lbs
Yamaha 2 Cycle 9.8 HP= lbs. I’ll take the extra HP, as it makes a huge difference with 2 people in the dink.
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Old 10-10-2020, 20:22   #58
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

2 Stroke. Yamaha Enduro. Period. Light. Strong. Simple. Safe. My 5 year old can start our 15hp...and my 10 & 11 year old can wakeboard behind the dinghy.

I’ve owned and raced on water and land with 15 different engines under 1 liter displacement and rebuilt
most of them myself. I also assist and repair a handful of outboards around me (full time cruising).

It has been my experience that most 4 strokes under 30-40hp don’t generate enough power or are too small and fickle to overcome simple mechanical flaws or lack of maintenance issues; carbs, air intake issues, gumming, pré-ignition, valve timing, fuel cleanliness, and on and on.

Under 30-40hp depending on manufacturer the money is equivalently spent poorly on a 4 vs 2 stroke.. Over 30-40hp intended use becomes the real issue for weight, fuel consumption, noise, smoke, etcetera.

If you can’t get a 2 stroke where you are get a small 4 stroke and be patient. Well worth the wait...
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Old 10-10-2020, 20:31   #59
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

I am still a little confused as to why he wants an outboard. The 'Trailer' part of his handle would suggest he might be looking for an auxiliary for a larger boat, but the 'short shaft' designation suggests dinghy. To me, the intended USE is everything in which type of engine is best....imho, of course....
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Old 10-10-2020, 21:05   #60
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Re: 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard

Intended use is everything; you’re right.

Concerning the emissions bit; I spent a lot of time in salvage yards as a kid and teenager while racing. They were full of 4 strokes compared to 2 strokes of similar class due to the longevity, ease of maintenance and cost between the two.

The 4 stroke may be ‘cleaner’ at the tail pipe; but that’s a far cry from total emissions during manufacturing and machine life.

The same argument would be akin to comparing gas engines to diesel engines for the same intended use in a heavy or sustained application..

The severely catalyzed gasoline engine is cleaner at the exhaust pipe, but will have much more down time, service intervals and need multiple replacements compared to the appropriate diesel unit.

In my opinion as a HUGE fan of Mother Earth, all 4 strokes should be banned under a certain HP or displacement rating.

What other world problems can we tackle tonight ?!? Hehe
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