Why is the build quality of cats deteriorating ?

[yeloya]

Being in this industry for so many years and seen/sailed/serviced many different cats, I sadly see that the overall quality of every boat regardless the make and model are getting worse than ever over the last 2-3 years while the prices in euro term have increased at least by 30-40% for the same period..
As almost every factory are nowadays using vinylesther resin,we don't see osmosis on new boats but a lot of gelcoat problems, standing/running rigging problems, finishing issues, faulty cabling, etc..
We know that logistic problems after the Covid explains delayed deliveries but the underlying problem seems to be poor craftmanship. With exploding demand, all yacht makers are running out of skilled people and are in rush. Unfortunately, the after sales departments are overloaded and / or unwilling to hear what the owners claim. Many of the owners had to pursue a law suit against the dealers, the dealers are reverting to the manufacurer in another country and takes years..

So what to do :

-some companies are offering 3 days training just after the delivery of the boat at extra cost, take it if this is offered or ask for it.
-try to be present yrself on the delivery of the boat, take yr time to check everything in depth,
-question the attitude of after sales service against warranty claims for the make you plan to buy (CF is a good platform to start with..)
-lastly, check out the warranty service that yr dealer is using, do they have enough skilled people to deal with the potential problems ?
-pray God for this will not happen to you

Cheers

Yeloya

[arsenelupiga]

good insight. i do not know about boats but noticed that same happened virtually in all parts of life, including food.

Effectively we are paying 10 % more for 10-90% lowered quality of the product or service.

Effectively masking true inflation that is around 50-70% p/a. Ie you pay on average double than last year for the same QUALITY, if you can get it at all. I effectively stopped drinking good vine as there is no such thing any more.

[Lake-Effect]

Just like all the MBA graduates seem to need 2000+ sq ft houses and nannies, it seems that most new-minted boat wannabees want cats. The market responds... And of course, turnover from the recent hurricanes.

You can decry the lack of skilled tradespeople, but until a good tradesperson can get the income and respect of the average middle-manager... the trades will suffer.

[wyb2]

Any business is most profitable when they can provide the lowest quality product that their target customer will tolerate. Inevitably they sometimes cross that line in an effort to find it.

Also survivorship bias and nostalgia make us all tend to think things used to be better.

[Mickeyrouse]

Sadly, the same economic force that has driven home prices since the onset of the pandemic are at play in boats as well. The quarantines had the effect of reducing demand for services, which meant consumers had more money to spend on hard goods…like boats. At the same time, labor came into short supply everywhere, and what was available was less likely to be as trained as needed. Hence higher priced boats built by less capable craftsmen. It seems inevitable.

[SailingHarmonie]

I know it is popular to blame "the pandemic" and mysterious greater forces at work, but honestly, most popular brand catamarans have ALWAYS been crap.

Why? Who is the single largest customer for these boats? The charter industry. Does the charter industry care one wit about build quality? No. No. And No. It's ALL about purchase price, and a boat that hangs together for 5 years, when it is returned to the owner/investor and removed from the charter fleet and they have no further interest in it.

It's not rocket science. If you are building boats mostly going to this market spending money on "quality" is a fool's game.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

I know it is popular to blame "the pandemic" and mysterious greater forces at work, but honestly, most popular brand catamarans have ALWAYS been crap.

Why? Who is the single largest customer for these boats? The charter industry. Does the charter industry care one wit about build quality? No. No. And No. It's ALL about purchase price, and a boat that hangs together for 5 years, when it is returned to the owner/investor and removed from the charter fleet and they have no further interest in it.

It's not rocket science. If you are building boats mostly going to this market spending money on "quality" is a fool's game.

That's right. Unless the charter customer is prepared to pay more for quality, then the return on investment will be less attractive. Owner version boats from the charter makers are merely a minority byline running off the same production line. For those companies that don't make charter boats like Outremer, Balance, Knynsa, Antares etc you can get a better quality you just have to pay for it because of small volumes and more expensive components. As the saying goes you can not make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Now the sows ear still works as a purse, as does the charter catamaran as a cruising boat.

[poiu]

It’s an inevitable consequence of the money printing Covid boom. Excess demand, inadequate skilled labour supply. A rush to profit from the rise in demand and a reluctance to restrict output. A vain hope by the factories that it will be fine and that they can cope. So late deliveries and shoddy quality and overpricing are all part of it. We saw this in 2007 also. It is human nature at work.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by poiu

It’s an inevitable consequence of the money printing Covid boom. Excess demand, inadequate skilled labour supply. A rush to profit from the rise in demand and a reluctance to restrict output. A vain hope by the factories that it will be fine and that they can cope. So late deliveries and shoddy quality and overpricing are all part of it. We saw this in 2007 also. It is human nature at work.

Exactly right

[Tupaia]

Beginning to see the light. I could never understand why private purchasers haul themselves around boat shows hell bent on buying a "production" cat then bleat on about the poor quality. These are produced almost exclusively for charter which is at odds with the requirements of actual cruisers, especially couples that make up the vast majority albeit a tiny overall number.

It may require a bit of effort but private purchasers would do well to look at custom and even owner built cats the ones that never appear at boat shows. They are superior in just about every aspect, more useable accommodation, better storage, less heads, better performance, easier to maintain, because the builder had input about such things and as we hear so often all a big label warranty does is waste sailing time and puts up your blood pressure.

Sure there are some dogs out there where builders were under funded and thought building was a cheap option but for a private buyer the quality and ingenuity to be found on a good one is outstanding.

Producing "cruising" cats is not a good business model compared to shelling peas for a massive less discerning commercial market. McDonald's vs Michelin Star.

[rabbi]

IMO the main tripping point was hurricane season 2017 (Irma, Maria) as it caused the cat builders to massively increase production & prices and overload their production teams trying to keep schedules.

Originally Posted by yeloya

So what to do :

-some companies are offering 3 days training just after the delivery of the boat at extra cost, take it if this is offered or ask for it.
-try to be present yrself on the delivery of the boat, take yr time to check everything in depth,
-question the attitude of after sales service against warranty claims for the make you plan to buy (CF is a good platform to start with..)
-lastly, check out the warranty service that yr dealer is using, do they have enough skilled people to deal with the potential problems ?
-pray God for this will not happen to you

You missed the obvious: Buy used, anything delivered before 2018!


We ruled out the last Lagoon 380s that were built in 2018 / 19 for exactly that reason.
Actually I was tempted and looked at one of the last builts. She was 3 years old and for sale after an atlantic circle. I did a 2 our inspection and then ran away quickly.

[Chris Cringle]

What difference does it make? The vast majority of the starry-eyed, in their new Sperrys wandering around the boat shows wouldn’t know a real boat if they saw one. As long as the sales brochure reads, “perfect combination of entertainment platform and performance machine” they are sold. Who cares if the damned thing dissolves when immersed in water. It is never going to leave the marina.

[Chotu]

And for those of us you know what goes into building a catamaran, we can see all of the shortcomings in these boats very easily. Not only the design, but the construction methods and materials. All the shortcuts. The companies don’t really care. As long as it lasts long enough that they are off the hook and have their money. That’s not the kind of boat I would want.

[barnab]

I think you just have to keep in mind what you buy when buying a modern production cat: A high volume (in build number and cubic feet), low price boat that is intended for an avg of 2 weeks of holiday motoring or motor sailing at best.


Why cruisers still buy those boats? Lack of choice, lack of knowledge and money...A lagoon 46 starts at 700k (Euros), an Antares 44 at 1.2m ($)...That's a lot more money for a boat you can't even view at a boatshow...

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by barnab

I think you just have to keep in mind what you buy when buying a modern production cat: A high volume (in build number and cubic feet), low price boat that is intended for an avg of 2 weeks of holiday motoring or motor sailing at best.


Why cruisers still buy those boats? Lack of choice, lack of knowledge and money...A lagoon 46 starts at 700k (Euros), an Antares 44 at 1.2m ($)...That's a lot more money for a boat you can't even view at a boatshow...

This is also an interesting factor.

Your post is exactly why it still makes sense to take on a building project as an individual rather than buying it from a production line.

Because you can get $1.5mil or $2mil worth of catamaran for less than that running your own project.

My boat is pretty much an exact copy of the gunboat 48. You can’t get one of those heavily used for less than $1.5 million. AND it would be almost 20 years old!