Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

[monte]

Upwind/up current in the med. Again there's no design limitation for sailing upwind on condo cats, maybe just mental limitations of some of the skippers who actually believe some of the comments they read on the interweb

[monte]

I don't want to be too rosey about upwind performance because it's not always great conditions. Like yesterday's sail in under 10k NE and 2k current against. Still sailable though even though VMG is probably close to 2-3 K...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by monte

Upwind/up current in the med. Again there's no design limitation for sailing upwind on condo cats, maybe just mental limitations of some of the skippers who actually believe some of the comments they read on the interweb

Monte, if you understood that I have said that condo cats cannot sail upwind you have not understood me. Sail cats do not sail worse upwind then some old full keel monohulls and they do sail upwind.

A condo cat sail upwind much better than a XV century Caravela, that was the boat with better upwind ability at that time and they discovered the world establishing the trade wind routes, many times going upwind.

The only thing I said was that a modern mono-hull has typically a better performance upwind than a condo cat.

Regarding going or not upwind, faster or slower, it has to do mainly with the sailor, even if I find normal that sailors that have boats that are specially good going upwind, many times in detriment of a better downwind performance, have them because they like to go upwind and it is logical that they will go upwind more often then the ones that have boats with a poorer performance upwind, otherwise their choice of boats would not make sense.

By the way I saw on the plotter that you have been in Ponza, a favorite place with very good anchorages for almost all winds. Do you have liked it?

Never been in Anzio and have made always the direct passage from Fumicino to Ponza. I would like to visit Anzio were it is possible to anchor but never had the wind from the right quadrant to have shelter. Do you have been at anchor or at the Marina?

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by Polux

The Knierim 49 belongs to the last category, to the ones that have a good and comfortable cruising interior...

In my experience, one of the most vital hallmarks of a "good and comfortable cruising interior", is adequate ventilation...

I dunno, to my eyes that one looks like it might get a bit 'stuffy', at times...

;-)

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

In my experience, one of the most vital hallmarks of a "good and comfortable cruising interior", is adequate ventilation...

I dunno, to my eyes that one looks like it might get a bit 'stuffy', at times...
;-)

Jon why are you talking about a Knierim 49 and posting photos of a Sunfast 3600, that contrary to the Knierim 49, is practically a race boat without any cruising "comforts" and without a decent cruising interior?

Anyway today in most boats of that size (50ft and over) the climatization and ventilation is made trough air conditioning or at leas a webasto type of heater with cold ventilation that supplements natural ventilation.

[monte]

We anchored in Anzio. The wind that day was around 20kn so blowing straight into the anchorage, but it's fully protected behind sandbars. The coastguard actually came out to meet us to help us in. I think they were tired of pulling yachts off the bar. Ponza was ok (very busy)but overall I preferred the coast to the north and Elba where it was much quieter. Or to the South (ventotine and ischia are very nice)
I understand your point on different upwind performance for different yachts, however the point I was trying to make is its not boat specific, it's captain specific as to whether they sail or motor. The particular day sailing to Ponza was around a 4 hr sail from memory. We were the only yacht sailing and I think 5-6 monohulls were motoring the same course into choppy 1.5m waves. They were a mixture of keelboats and bene charter yachts. We averaged around 7kn so about 4kn VMG. About the same speed as if we had motored but a lot more comfortable and enjoyable to sail. I guess we all arrived at Ponza around the same time but we had €20 saved on fuel to spend on Icecream 🍦

[Kenomac]

Did you mean gelato?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by monte

Upwind/up current in the med. Again there's no design limitation for sailing upwind on condo cats, maybe just mental limitations of some of the skippers who actually believe some of the comments they read on the interweb
Attachment 113912

yeah, that was me. I was totally resigned to the fact that I cannot sail upwind. Until I say your posts

And then I actually tried !!!

[44'cruisingcat]

I forgot to switch my engines on again yesterday. Did a 68 mile passage SIX HOURS faster than a similar length mono though.


I really must remember to start those motors....

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

Since you like to compare your boat with monohulls we can extend that comparison a bit further and look at another video of yours were your cat is making with 11k true wind 8.9/9k speed at 120º true wind angle.

I agree that this angle is more favorable for a cat than for a monohull but even so let's compare with the performance of the smaller Landmark 43 at that angle and since I have not data for 11k wind, with 10 and 12k true wind: 12k TRW - 9.26K, 10K TRW - 8.60K.

So, was that polar figure achieved using only the main and jib?

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I forgot to switch my engines on again yesterday. Did a 68 mile passage SIX HOURS faster than a similar length mono though.


I really must remember to start those motors....

Listen don't ruin our reputation. I know it's hard. Just last summer I did 21 miles in just over 2 hours. Luckily no one saw us.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

So, was that polar figure achieved using only the main and jib?

Polux has done it again! Talk about being disingenous!! The smaller Landmark 43 (only 1 foot shorter than 44c's boat!) is described on their website here --> Landmark Yachts AS - Landmark 43 as an IRC CRUISER RACER and once again you're comparing it to a catamaran designed to cruise. Not racer cruiser, or even cruiser racer!

Seriously Polux, give it a rest mate. You're biased against catamarans, despite your assertions not to be, and your comparisons are not valid at best, and deliberately misleading at worst. I don't believe your bias is unconscious either.

You're a 'multi' troll and really need to pack it in. Seriously, give it a rest.

[med]

Two years ago I did 28 miles (from Port Vendres in France to Rosas in Spain) in just over 3 hours with just the staysail up from my 34 ton gaff rigged mono hull.

And mother in law cooked a mighty fine curry while we were doing that as well.

Just for info, at full chat under engine, the best speed we get in still water with no wind is 7.0 knots (with a clean bum).

It was blowing F9 at the time - the port master at Port Vendres thought we were crazy to go out in an F9.

It was a fantastic sail - we did not even get the decks wet. It was smooth - like riding on a magic carpet.

This was in August and there was not one single other boat to be seen.

Of course this was with a following wind. Going the other way would have been wet and miserable with the nasty waves we get around Cap Bear.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by med

Two years ago I did 28 miles (from Port Vendres in France to Rosas in Spain) in just over 3 hours with just the staysail up from my 34 ton gaff rigged mono hull.

And mother in law cooked a mighty fine curry while we were doing that as well.

Just for info, at full chat under engine, the best speed we get in still water with no wind is 7.0 knots (with a clean bum).

It was blowing F9 at the time - the port master at Port Vendres thought we were crazy to go out in an F9.

It was a fantastic sail - we did not even get the decks wet. It was smooth - like riding on a magic carpet.

This was in August and there was not one single other boat to be seen.

Of course this was with a following wind. Going the other way would have been wet and miserable with the nasty waves we get around Cap Bear.

That's one sweet ride!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by tp12

Polux has done it again! Talk about being disingenous!! The smaller Landmark 43 (only 1 foot shorter than 44c's boat!) is described on their website here --> Landmark Yachts AS - Landmark 43 as an IRC CRUISER RACER and once again you're comparing it to a catamaran designed to cruise. Not racer cruiser, or even cruiser racer!

Seriously Polux, give it a rest mate. You're biased against catamarans, despite your assertions not to be, and your comparisons are not valid at best, and deliberately misleading at worst. I don't believe your bias is unconscious either.

You're a 'multi' troll and really need to pack it in. Seriously, give it a rest.

I should have stopped to reply to you because you don't discuss in a serious way. It is false that on the Landmark site the boats is advertised as a IRC racer and not as a dual purpose boat (cruiser/racer). It is advertised as any other cruiser/racer monohull, like my own boat, like a Xp yacht or a Salona, as a dual purpose one, that means one that can be used for cruising or racing. This is what says the link you posted:

"Landmark 43 IRC cruiser/racer:

Our dual-purpose IRC production design, setting new standards of performance, beauty, and affordability.
... The Landmark 43 is a true dual-purpose cruiser / racer with the lines of a custom IRC raceboat. This boat will be perfect for fully crewed inshore and offshore racing as well as shorthanded racing and family cruising.".

There is no IRC cruising and the boat being advertised as a IRC cruising racer means that it is a cruiser racer and in what regards racing optimized for IRC rating.

Regarding the boat program the Naval Architect talks about what he had designed the boat for:

Mills Design Ltd. is proud of the Landmark 43 high performance IRC Cruiser/Racer. This design builds on our unparalleled experience with winning dual-purpose IRC designs both custom and production to offer true performance cruising comfort and outstanding results on the racecourse.

..
The bright interior with 3 double cabins and large galley and nav station trimmed with wood is as comfortable for an extended family cruise as it is for racing around the buoys.

The spacious head with access both from the forward cabin and the saloon ensures complete amenity. Attention has been paid to light and ventilation below with careful hatch and portlight placement. In addition to the main hatch and foredeck hatch there are twin small hatches over the head and forward cabin spaces, and a square hatch in the coachroof centrally over the saloon. In the aft cabins there are opening portlights in the cockpit seat fronts....

This design represents the next generation of IRC Performance Cruiser Racers, and reflects our commitment to creating beautiful, fast, and reliable performance yachts.
http://www.landmarkyachts.com/Custom..._43_202_IP.pdf
So what is the part you have not understood? And why are you calling me a troll? or misleading? I would say that you saying that on the site you have posted the link, it is said that the Landmark 43 is not advertised as a dual purpose boat (a cruiser racer), but as a racer is what is misleading.

That makes you a troll?