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03-07-2015, 00:23
#
61
rabbi
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,924
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cwjohm
However, I have yet to meet anyone, and I have talked to hundreds, who tell me that they particularly enjoy passages, especially extended passages with overnighters, from place to place. Rather the discussion seems to revolve around the most efficient means to get the
boat
from A to B so that they can enjoy their next
destination
.
Talk to us! Both of us particularly enjoy passages, especially night passages. In fact we try to do a lot of sailing in the night, not only because we like it but also its a great way to minimize long sailing days for the
kids
(for them sailing gets boring after a few hours unless some
dolphins
join us).
We spent the last season in the
greece
Ionian
sea and that was just 1-3hr island hopping. I very much look forward to this summer when we will do some longer passages on our way towards
Spain
. Still 2 weeks to go before we take off.
03-07-2015, 00:30
#
62
Kokanee
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Adelaide Australia
Boat: Cuddles 30ft Motor Sailer
Posts: 286
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
I agree with the OP. Their may be a slightly higher % of cats which use engines when sufficient
wind
is available.
When cruising in my buddies
Lagoon 440
, I often have to convince him to raise the
sails
, even though it does sail very well, and with in
mast
furling
, its all too easy.
I'm thinking, in comparison to the average
monohull
owner, they (or their partner) get less of a buzz out of letting the
wind
do its thing. They don't enjoy heeling, or the feel of the
power
of the wind. They just enjoy being out on the
water
, but enjoy their comfort. And a sailing
catamaran
is more "romantic" than a
power
catamaran
.
This doesn't apply to all, but it affects the overall percentage.
03-07-2015, 00:49
#
63
Kenomac
cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Now, I understand the
charter
companies and folks who
charter
wanting to get to locations faster.... I get that. I also appreciate the added acreage on a catamaran... I'm jealous of that and maybe someday will own a Cat.
What I don't get, is then WHY bother with having a sailing rig at all? Why not just buy a powercat and forget about the
sails
altogether? Seems like it would save some
money
? But still, a powercat remains the odd cat out, with the vast majority (probably better than 95%) having a sailing rig.
I think the power cats actually look much nicer. Take away the sailing rig, and they're pretty easy on the eyes.
Attached Thumbnails
03-07-2015, 01:06
#
64
Tim Godber
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Jersey
Boat: Little Harbor 46
Posts: 73
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Heres my theory!
Catamarans were originally designed with no ballast, relying on the leverage of their beam to avoid
capsize
, they were thus light and therefore fast, particularly off wind.
Modern catamarans are principally popular because they have massive accommodation potential, but the original principal of lightness and therefore speed has been
lost
, and for the most part they simply don't sail quickly and can barely tack through 170 degrees. Thus the people that buy, or more particularly hire them don't do it to sail, but to rush from marina to marina. The question in my mind is why, then, do they bother with the massive rig, the
motor
only options on some of these designs seem much more sensible and presumably much cheaper!
Finally, a wise Frenchman said to me about a
Lagoon
40 something, "these boats can sail TO the
Caribbean
, but they cannot get back, so if you want one cheap!". I don't!
03-07-2015, 01:33
#
65
Snowgoose35
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 156
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
As a cat owner - and not a fast one but a Prout cruising cat from the 70s - I sail everywhere its possible to. I have both an
asymmetric
and a symmetric
spinnaker
to make the best use of the light winds from all angles and a good set of well cut white sails for the rest.
However - the Prout has an aft stepped
mast
so you will often see me sailing under
genoa
or
spinnaker
alone as the main is tiny and does very little (perhaps adds half a
knot
in ideal conditions) - this is perhaps lazy but mean I can keep a boom tent up when its 95 degrees as it is this week and enjoy lots of shade whilst sailing.
I do notice here in the
Med
though that almost none of the charter cats use sails ever - they also only use full throttle on the engines no matter where they are - even when recovering
anchor
chain! This says more about the type of people who rent them than the
boat
.
My friends on a new
Lagoon 400
(the most popular charter boat but theirs is private) sail much of the time and report (as will Monte of these parts) that they get very good speeds despite it looking like a brick and can sail at 50 degrees and make very good progress in light airs too. I've been totally converted to sailing merits of the newer Lagoons watching them this last year.
An acquaintance on a Funcat 44 sails in and out of almost every anchorage and we passed him under
motor
one day (opposite direction so wind was dead on our nose) making about 2 knots under sail in the lightest of winds with just a mile to go to
anchor
but still he didn't turn on the
engine
.
In the last year we've racked up about 60
engine
hours for around 2800 miles - most of that in and out of
anchorages
as my wife feels
anchoring
under sail in the crowded
Med
is too risky and too scary for those enjoying their evening G&T
In short all most all cats sail very well, maybe not as fast in some situations as a mono but faster in others. Charter crews, in the Med at any rate, seem to be young, inexperienced, packed at least 8 or 10 to a boat and have no idea how to do anything at all - least of all sail. The requirements to charter seem woefully ignored round here - I actually heard the helmsman on a
Lagoon
the other day shout forward " does that anchor thingy look like its at the bottom yet". The next morning he left the anchorage at 9 knots and full throttle (as in not maximum safe throttle but screaming smoking FULL throttle) giving a yahoo as he set everything else rolling in wash. He was one of the better charter skippers I have seen - and the
monohull
crowd are no better on charter boats; no sails, drag all the time at anchor, anchor in stupid places and set the
cockpit
music
blasting the moment they stop. However, as most charter boats are now cats it always looks like there are more cats (read Lagoons) doing stupid or lazy things but people who actually own their boat and
cruise
tend to be rather better at sailing.
03-07-2015, 02:38
#
66
rabbi
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,924
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tim Godber
Heres my theory!
Catamarans were originally designed with no ballast, relying on the leverage of their beam to avoid
capsize
, they were thus light and therefore fast, particularly off wind.
Modern catamarans are principally popular because they have massive accommodation potential, but the original principal of lightness and therefore speed has been
lost
, and for the most part they simply don't sail quickly and can barely tack through 170 degrees. Thus the people that buy, or more particularly hire them don't do it to sail, but to rush from marina to marina. The question in my mind is why, then, do they bother with the massive rig, the motor only options on some of these designs seem much more sensible and presumably much cheaper!
Finally, a wise Frenchman said to me about a Lagoon 40 something, "these boats can sail TO the
Caribbean
, but they cannot get back, so if you want one cheap!". I don't!
I guess you are bored and trying to stirr things up a bit
or do you really believe in your "theory"?
In that case I have another bit to add to it: Cat sailors are always afraid of being flipped over in anything above 5kn of wind so we barely raise the sails!
Those actually sailing all have a death wish.
The fact that many boats motor when the
weather
is OK to sail has most often not much to do with the boat but the mindset of the folk onboard. Cat or not doesn't matter much.
03-07-2015, 04:37
#
67
valhalla360
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,002
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
I'm convinced it's the fact that mono's wallow around if you try to motor in a seaway with no sails up. Mono sailors aren't more purist or better sailors, they just don't want to get sea sick, so they throw up a sail while motoring, so it looks like they sail more.
03-07-2015, 04:45
#
68
weavis
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rabbi
In that case I have another bit to add to it: Cat sailors are always afraid of being flipped over in anything above 5kn of wind so we barely raise the sails!
Those actually sailing all have a death wish.
You just undid years of therapy. Now I have to start again.......
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
03-07-2015, 05:54
#
69
malbert73
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 2,475
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
44'cruisingcat
Yeah, cat's just can't sail to windward.
03-07-2015, 05:59
#
70
malbert73
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 2,475
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
And of course the 30 degrees is right. At 9 knots in 29 knots of breeze, that's probably about 40-45 degree true heading to wind, making it 30 degrees apparent. Just like a monohull, which it should do with a high aspect daggerboard and good sailplan.
No reason cats can't point. They just need to be optimized for sailing, not accomodations.
Sent from my
iPad
using Cruisers Sailing Forum
03-07-2015, 06:02
#
71
ranger58sb
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 58' Sedan Bridge
Posts: 5,438
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thinwater
Different priorities. My 34' cat has 2 x queen cabins (household dimensions), but what I would love are kings.
In my mind bigger is not better unless it gets me something I need, since bigger means heavier everything and more
work
. It's supposed to be vacation!
Agree, different strokes. For us, it's about the pain of changing
bed
linen. Our
current
centerline "queen" (isn't really household queen) but it's almost big enough. But we can only walk about 3/5ths of the lower end... and that's up on a raised shelf on the sides... so stripping the
bed
isn't too bad, but putting on new bottoms
sheets
sucks.
(Our
current
trick is to pull the mattress about halfway off the bed platform, start the
head
of the bottom sheet, slide it all back where it belongs, deal with sides as best we can reach.)
But ideally, I'd prefer a household Sleep Number bed on an articulated platform. And their king version would be even better, with the option for separate articulation.
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA.
03-07-2015, 06:02
#
72
weavis
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malbert73
And of course the 30 degrees is right. At 9 knots in 29 knots of breeze, that's probably about 40-45 degree true heading to wind, making it 30 degrees apparent. Just like a monohull, which it should do with a high aspect daggerboard and good sailplan.
No reason cats can't point. They just need to be optimized for sailing, not accomodations.
Sent from my
iPad
using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Nonsense!! My goal is a genuine 3 storey catamaran that gets there...
(eventually)
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
03-07-2015, 06:09
#
73
hoppy
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,844
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ranger42c
Agree, different strokes. For us, it's about the pain of changing bed linen. Our current centerline "queen" (isn't really household queen) but it's almost big enough. But we can only walk about 3/5ths of the lower end... and that's up on a raised shelf on the sides... so stripping the bed isn't too bad, but putting on new bottoms
sheets
sucks.
(Our current trick is to pull the mattress about halfway off the bed platform, start the
head
of the bottom sheet, slide it all back where it belongs, deal with sides as best we can reach.)
But ideally, I'd prefer a household Sleep Number bed on an articulated platform. And their king version would be even better, with the option for separate articulation.
-Chris
Since when did I sign up to the Martha Stewart household tips forum?😏
Ohhh wait, it's still cruisers forum, just the floating condo section.
Sent from my
iPhone
using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
S/Y Jessabbé
https://www.jessabbe.com/
03-07-2015, 06:12
#
74
weavis
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hoppy
Since when did I sign up to the Martha Stewart household tips forum?😏
Ohhh wait, it's still cruisers forum, just the floating condo section.
Sent from my
iPhone
using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I think you are excluded from
membership
or the right to comment by virtue of being..er........ one
hull
less of a catamaran.
Strangely enough, one of the things I dislike in mono's or Multis, is not being able to walk around a bed and having to climb up from the bottom. Even one side open is an improvement.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
03-07-2015, 06:20
#
75
ranger58sb
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 58' Sedan Bridge
Posts: 5,438
Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hoppy
Since when did I sign up to the Martha Stewart household tips forum?��
Ohhh wait, it's still cruisers forum, just the floating condo section.
I learn a lot from hard-core cruisers. But then I also learn a lot from the way we travel on board... and I don't see any need to make cruising, even the mini version that we usually do, any less comfortable than we can make it.
I've shopped on sailing cats for years, but the only one I've seen with the other gotta-have feature -- a full flying bridge -- was ~85' and I didn't have that kinda pocket change on me at the time.
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA.
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