What do Leopard owners think of the forward cockpit

[capt.amory]

Hello Sailing community

Are you a Leopard owner?

I just put an offer on a 2016 Leopard 40 ft in Clear water, FL
Are you a Leopard owner?

The Leopard has made innovation with the forward cockpit walking glass door.

Am wondering what do other Leopard owners think of::

- How well does she sail upwind? Does the Glass door in the forward cockpit decrease how close to the wind she can sail?

- What materials is the forward Glass made from Plexi Glass (Acrylic) or untempered Glass?

- How is the forward Glass affected by waves, does it break? crack often

[Jebtrois]

You read like a bot. If this is a legit post, it would generally be advisable to answer these questions before spending 500k on a boat.

[capt.amory]

Originally Posted by Jebtrois

You read like a bot. If this is a legit post, it would generally be advisable to answer these questions before spending 500k on a boat.

Haha, am not a Bot friend.
My mind works like a robot maybe,

this is a legit concern I have, the 40ft Leopard am putting an offer on is for $350K

Do you own, sail a Leopard?

[John_Trusty]

We sail one of the older versions of the Leopard 40 (2009), so offer this perspective. The build quality is good, perhaps better than other production cats (?). We like ours because it doesn't have the forward cockpit. The large collection area forward made us concerned for taking seas over the bow because it is advertised to drain in only 45 seconds, which is an eternity in a six-second period sea. Also, they removed two huge bow lazarettes which we have. I've examined the plexiglass forward door at boat shows, and would have no concerns - it's a bank vault. The other thing I prefer for the older L40 is the sailing performance ratios - check the sail area to weight and Kersal numbers, for example. Leopard is moving toward the profitable charter market as has Lagoon.

[capt.amory]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

We sail one of the older versions of the Leopard 40 (2009), so offer this perspective. The build quality is good, perhaps better than other production cats (?). We like ours because it doesn't have the forward cockpit. The large collection area forward made us concerned for taking seas over the bow because it is advertised to drain in only 45 seconds, which is an eternity in a six-second period sea. Also, they removed two huge bow lazarettes which we have. I've examined the plexiglass forward door at boat shows, and would have no concerns - it's a bank vault. The other thing I prefer for the older L40 is the sailing performance ratios - check the sail area to weight and Kersal numbers, for example. Leopard is moving toward the profitable charter market as has Lagoon.

Thanks for your input mate, its no surprise the Sailing preformance on the older modles (without forward cockpit) is better. Yes Leopard affiliation with the Mooring & other Charters is having them move to a charter dedicated type of design.

[chris.burcher]

The 40 doesn't have a front cockpit exactly. It only has the door and a narrow walkway onto the front deck. The real 'cockpit' area starts with the 44.

So you'd really have to ask specifically about the 40 and whether folks like the door.

I spent a week on an L40 in Florida during summer and thought the door was great for ventilation. There are criticisms, of course, that suggest taking a wave would add weight to the front end of the boat causing trouble. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but the problem would be less on the 40 since the 'bathtub' is so much smaller than on the 44 up.

[capt.amory]

Originally Posted by chris.burcher

The 40 doesn't have a front cockpit exactly. It only has the door and a narrow walkway onto the front deck. The real 'cockpit' area starts with the 44.

So you'd really have to ask specifically about the 40 and whether folks like the door.

I spent a week on an L40 in Florida during summer and thought the door was great for ventilation. There are criticisms, of course, that suggest taking a wave would add weight to the front end of the boat causing trouble. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but the problem would be less on the 40 since the 'bathtub' is so much smaller than on the 44 up.

That is true, the "bathtub" is much smaller on the 40ft. This morning I visited the L40 in Clear water, FL and it is a beautiful design but definetly feels like a charter boat over a tough Blue water cruiser. because of the front cockpit. either way many of these L40 have sailed around many seas. so it is a personal prefrence

[CarlF]

A flooded forward cockpit weighs less than full tanks.

I have a forward cockpit and love it. Never had a problem
offshore .

It’s not clear the newer boats are slower. Leopard switched to infusion which means a lighter boat. But a 40 will never sail as well as a bigger boat like a 45 because of the shorter waterline (it will also hobby horse more)

If you want sailing performance on a Leopard, install feathering/folding props, buy new sails of a performance cloth, don’t overload the boat with stuff, learn how to trim sails especially leach shape. This all makes a much bigger difference than the model.

[FlyingScot]

The main issue with the newer 40 vs the older 40 (biased older 40 owner here) is weight. The boat grew 40% or more in weight with the same sail area.

Everything depends on use case, and I'm sure the newer 40 has much better ventilation through the salon than ours does at anchor.

Leopards are built well for their price points. Easier to work on and upgrade than most others.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by capt.amory

Hello Sailing community

Are you a Leopard owner?

I just put an offer on a 2016 Leopard 40 ft in Clear water, FL
Are you a Leopard owner?

The Leopard has made innovation with the forward cockpit walking glass door.

Am wondering what do other Leopard owners think of::

- How well does she sail upwind? Does the Glass door in the forward cockpit decrease how close to the wind she can sail?

- What materials is the forward Glass made from Plexi Glass (Acrylic) or untempered Glass?

- How is the forward Glass affected by waves, does it break? crack often

I have a 2017 L40, and the forward door is a wonderful feature. It does not affect performance (I always close it when underway) and just today I sailed at about 7.5-8.5 knots on a beam reach alongside a Seawind 1160 that was flying a screacher (large genoa) and square top performance cloth main while my boat only has the standard factory dacron main and genoa - performance was about equal. Both boats were heavily loaded for cruising. Wind about 13-18 knots.
Upwind sailing performance is equal to any other non-daggerboard cat (she does not point high, but sails well from about 40-degrees apparent and gets better as you bear off). If we need to go to windward we generally motor or motor sail. The boat sails surprisingly well on a reach, even in fairly light winds (e.g. 7-15 knots).
Flat water motoring speed is about 7.5 knots at 2750 rpm using flexofold 3-blade folding props. Yanmar states 3100 rpm cruising speed, it’s stamped on the engine plate. I prefer to run them a bit slower because I think the boat is happier at 2500-2900 (sound and vibration).
The door is made from heavy acrylic. The drain in the outside step well is capable of very high volume (fast) draining and there’s no way you could possibly accumulate a water build up. The door is not subject to cracking, to my knowledge.

[Factor]

Not A Forward cockpit. A forward lounge, not a cockpit.

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

I have a 2017 L40, and the forward door is a wonderful feature. It does not affect performance (I always close it when underway) and just today I sailed at about 7.5-8.5 knots on a beam reach alongside a Seawind 1160 that was flying a screacher (large genoa) and square top performance cloth main while my boat only has the standard factory dacron main and genoa - performance was about equal. Both boats were heavily loaded for cruising. Wind about 13-18 knots.
Upwind sailing performance is equal to any other non-daggerboard cat (she does not point high, but sails well from about 40-degrees apparent and gets better as you bear off). If we need to go to windward we generally motor or motor sail. The boat sails surprisingly well on a reach, even in fairly light winds (e.g. 7-15 knots).
Flat water motoring speed is about 7.5 knots at 2750 rpm using flexofold 3-blade folding props. Yanmar states 3100 rpm cruising speed, it’s stamped on the engine plate. I prefer to run them a bit slower because I think the boat is happier at 2500-2900 (sound and vibration).
The door is made from heavy acrylic. The drain in the outside step well is capable of very high volume (fast) draining and there’s no way you could possibly accumulate a water build up. The door is not subject to cracking, to my knowledge.

I am owning a 2017 L40 as well and confirm this absolutely.

We sailed across the indian ocean, eastbound. Bridgedeck slam was anoying and we got a lot of slams... But the vessel did not get any damage from it, so in my opinion solid build. we got hit by lightning, no structural damage at all. All electronics broken.

Check the front window and sometimes the side windows. The acrylic may show some cracks.

I am in the fb L40 group. Never heard of problems caused by the front door.

John

[capt.amory]

Originally Posted by Factor

Not A Forward cockpit. A forward lounge, not a cockpit.

Yes, friend you are correct a forward lounge and not a cockpit. the larger Leopard 44ft have the cockpit

[capt.amory]

Originally Posted by Piscis

I am owning a 2017 L40 as well and confirm this absolutely.

We sailed across the indian ocean, eastbound. Bridgedeck slam was anoying and we got a lot of slams... But the vessel did not get any damage from it, so in my opinion solid build. we got hit by lightning, no structural damage at all. All electronics broken.

Check the front window and sometimes the side windows. The acrylic may show some cracks.

I am in the fb L40 group. Never heard of problems caused by the front door.

John

Thank you John, for your input. I really love this online community and I appreciate all the knowledge and the time everyone puts into helping each others

[capt.amory]

Originally Posted by CarlF

A flooded forward cockpit weighs less than full tanks.

I have a forward cockpit and love it. Never had a problem
offshore .

It’s not clear the newer boats are slower. Leopard switched to infusion which means a lighter boat. But a 40 will never sail as well as a bigger boat like a 45 because of the shorter waterline (it will also hobby horse more)

If you want sailing performance on a Leopard, install feathering/folding props, buy new sails of a performance cloth, don’t overload the boat with stuff, learn how to trim sails especially leach shape. This all makes a much bigger difference than the model.

Thank you for your input