Western Caribbean Passage Making on a Cat

[Direstraits]

Hello all,

I am retiring soon and will begin my sailing career in Oct of this coming year. One of my passions in life is flyfishing for bonefish and tarpon. The area in the Yucatan/Belize/Guatemala along with the Bahamas are prime fishing areas and all accessible by sailboat. I am thinking of leaving my boat in the Rio Dolce for hurricane season. I have pondered this for some time and looking at the charts it all seems doable but there is a heavy price to pay going from east to west across the Caribbean.

My idea is to come out of the Rio head north fishing in Belize and the Yucatan then riding the Gulf Stream over to the Bahamas working my way down the chain to the Turks and Caicos Islands. Then a rather difficult passage from T&Cs to Jamaica on to the Caymans and then Roatan/Sapodilla where we would stay a bit waiting on storms and then head into the Rio once a storm is headed our way and wait out the hurricane season in Rio D. Think of it as the Great Flyfishing Loop around Cuba (there will be time spent there as well, as a missionary/fisherman).


However, I have not seen any youtubes or other channels showing the passage. I realize the hard part will be from T&Cs to Jamaica/Caymans/Roatan/Sapodilla.

Has anyone here made this type of trip? Any advice/experience/thoughts/etc would be most welcome.
Thanks
Dennis

[belizesailor]

Congratulations in advance!

I dont have a YouTube channel, but I've sailed these routes on a cat and have been in the W Carib for almost 20 years now. Cruised the region and been based in Belize/Rio Dulce/Panama.

The TC-Jamaica-Bay Islands route is not bad. Time your transit well thru the Windward Passage, it can get a bit sporty but the rest is normally easy. Lots of complex currents between Jamiaca and the Bay Islands. Factoring these into your route planning can make a big difference.

I suggest leaving the Caymans out of this leg because that will take you much further West and you will have to bash a bit more to weather to gain easting to make the Bay Islands. The angle is better directly from Jamaica to Bay Islands.

The challenging bit will be returning to the Bahamas/T&C. The prevailing winds in the Florida Straits are easterlies.

Happy to discuss the region with you.

[Direstraits]

BelizeSailor

Is there a better route than what I have laid out? At some point I have to go east against the wind. I was thinking I would have the Gulf Stream to help me get back to the Bahamas....

Also, there are ports along the way in Cuba. What I do not know is the clearance procedures for Cuba. Most come from the Keys and go to Hemingway Marina to check in - is that the only place one can check in? I believe there is a marina at the far western tip of Cuba....or there abouts - can I check in there and go east hopping from one bay to another....?? I do not want o end up in a Cuban prison

Also in Cayo Largo on the south side of Cuba there is some really good Tarpon fishing....I would love to go there if is allowed by the Cuban govt.

Also, what cruising guides would you recommend?

Again - thanks so much for your help - it means a lot!!

Cheers,
Dennis

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by Direstraits

BelizeSailor

Is there a better route than what I have laid out? At some point I have to go east against the wind. I was thinking I would have the Gulf Stream to help me get back to the Bahamas....

Also, there are ports along the way in Cuba. What I do not know is the clearance procedures for Cuba. Most come from the Keys and go to Hemingway Marina to check in - is that the only place one can check in? I believe there is a marina at the far western tip of Cuba....or there abouts - can I check in there and go east hopping from one bay to another....?? I do not want o end up in a Cuban prison

Also in Cayo Largo on the south side of Cuba there is some really good Tarpon fishing....I would love to go there if is allowed by the Cuban govt.

Also, what cruising guides would you recommend?

Again - thanks so much for your help - it means a lot!!

Cheers,
Dennis

Everyone in Rio seems to recommend the Freya cruising guide for Belize and MX. I just sailed my cat from Rio Dulce to Pensacola in early November. Wild ride, but that comes with the time of year. I did make it from Isla Mujeres to Pensacola in 3.5 days and mine is not a particularly fast cat...so those currents are a thing and best worked with in consideration of wind/wave interaction with them.

[Direstraits]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

Everyone in Rio seems to recommend the Freya cruising guide for Belize and MX. I just sailed my cat from Rio Dulce to Pensacola in early November. Wild ride, but that comes with the time of year. I did make it from Isla Mujeres to Pensacola in 3.5 days and mine is not a particularly fast cat...so those currents are a thing and best worked with in consideration of wind/wave interaction with them.

Thanks - I ordered it from Amazon just now.

Thanks!!!

Dennis

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Direstraits

BelizeSailor

Is there a better route than what I have laid out? At some point I have to go east against the wind. I was thinking I would have the Gulf Stream to help me get back to the Bahamas....

Also, there are ports along the way in Cuba. What I do not know is the clearance procedures for Cuba. Most come from the Keys and go to Hemingway Marina to check in - is that the only place one can check in? I believe there is a marina at the far western tip of Cuba....or there abouts - can I check in there and go east hopping from one bay to another....?? I do not want o end up in a Cuban prison

Also in Cayo Largo on the south side of Cuba there is some really good Tarpon fishing....I would love to go there if is allowed by the Cuban govt.

Also, what cruising guides would you recommend?

Again - thanks so much for your help - it means a lot!!

Cheers,
Dennis

I will review your original general route and make some more specific recommendations.

Ive only cruised the N coast of Cuba, but I know others who have cleared in on the S coast...so it can be done. On the N coast officials do restrict where you can go, but I hear from friends that the S coast is much less restricted.

I will post a copy of my 2c on cruising guides for the W Carib.

You're welcome.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I will review your original general route and make some more specific recommendations.

Ive only cruised the N coast of Cuba, but I know others who have cleared in on the S coast...so it can be done. On the N coast officials do restrict where you can go, but I hear from friends that the S coast is much less restricted.

I will post a copy of my 2c on cruising guides for the W Carib.

You're welcome.

Yesterday evening ended a very long travel leg for me so I was too tired to review this last night, but its a new day with fresh coffee!

My 2c:

This will be a multi-part message. Part 1:

Reviewed your initial route and my comments. Nothing wrong in general with your proposed route. My original comment related to the leg from T&C to the Bay Islands. You had categorized it as a difficult leg. However, it is mostly off the wind Trade Winds sailing. Under normal conditions this is an easy sail, not difficult.

The more challenging leg will be getting from Belize to the Bahamas. The most common route for this is Belize-Isla Mujeres-Florida-Bahamas.

"Riding the Gullf Stream" will not likely be as easy as you are thinking.

First some terminology: The attached image shows the current systems of the region. These are:

Yucatan Current (circled in blue). A powerful N flowing current. Its strongest as it compresses between the Yucatan and Cuba.

Gulf Loop Current (circled in green). A highly variable loop. I have encountered it as far N as 160nm S of Mobile, AL! Since this current's path is highly variable, you will want the most recent data on its position before crossing it.

Florida Current (circled in pink). Strong and steady flow between Florida and Cuba. Commonly, and incorrectly, referred to as the Gulf Stream.

Gulf Stream (partially circled in orange). The mighty Stream starts after the Florida Current exits the Florida Straits.

You will have to contend with the first 3 of these currents on your route.


....more to come...

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Direstraits

BelizeSailor

Is there a better route than what I have laid out? At some point I have to go east against the wind. I was thinking I would have the Gulf Stream to help me get back to the Bahamas....

Also, there are ports along the way in Cuba. What I do not know is the clearance procedures for Cuba. Most come from the Keys and go to Hemingway Marina to check in - is that the only place one can check in? I believe there is a marina at the far western tip of Cuba....or there abouts - can I check in there and go east hopping from one bay to another....?? I do not want o end up in a Cuban prison

Also in Cayo Largo on the south side of Cuba there is some really good Tarpon fishing....I would love to go there if is allowed by the Cuban govt.

Also, what cruising guides would you recommend?

Again - thanks so much for your help - it means a lot!!

Cheers,
Dennis

Re cruising guides:

"
Cruising Guides

There are a number of cruising guides published for the region. Collectively they provide excellent and detailed coverage.

Below is my perspective on each of these publications (that I know of) which cover this region (note there are a few out of print guides and other Internet based sources of info as well).

Cruising Ports: the Central American Route (AKA "Rains Guide"). Excellent guide to passage planning between cruising ports. It is not intended to be a "cruising guide" per se, but does also include a fair amount of information supplemental to its purpose. It's primary value is for planning routes between cruising ports.

Cruising Guide to Belize and Mexico's Caribbean Coast, including Guatemala's Rio Dulce (Freya Rauscher). Another excellent work and the only comprehensive navigation reference for Belize. Her charts are the most comprehensive and accurate available for Belize. There are a few, very few, errors and omissions in this guide. An especially impressive accomplishment is accurate given the extensive and complex waters of Belize.

A Cruising Guide to the Northwest Caribbean (Stephen J. Pavlidis). This guide in fact only covers a relatively small area of the NW Carib. For example, effectively no information on Belize or Mexico -- even the section describing potential routes from the Gulf Of Mexico to Rio Dulce omits Belize like it does not exist -- tough to do from a practical perspective (Not even a reference to Freya's guide for more information). It's primary value is the navigation information it provides for the Bay Islands and Northern coast of Honduras. The navigation information is sparse, but sufficient and accurate. However, there are voluminous sections on local culture and history (reasonably well done, but all this information and more is available from other sources). The sparse navigation information for each port is supplemented by much more extensive information regarding Internet access and dining options for that port.

The Panama Cruising Guide (Eric Bauhaus). This is "THE" guide to Panama and one of the best guides I have ever used independent of venue. Extremely detailed and comprehensive with excellent satellite cartography, aerial shots, and extensive local knowledge. Gets my vote for best cruising guide ever written regardless of venue.

Cruising Guide to Colombia. This is a truly impressive official tome of a cruising guide which is richly illustrated and chock full of navigation details. However, it was developed to promote maritime tourism and much of the text was clearly written by people who knew nothing of boats or navigation. The navigation details however are extensive and good, including a full set of charts, waypoint lists, and aerial photos. Paper copies are not widely available, but are handed out for free when clearing into Santa Marta or Cartagena. Bluewater Books & Charts used to offer a paper copy for shipping costs only, but no more. There is a full PDF version available, but the problem is that the PDF version of this guide is so large and rich in graphic content that it often fails render properly and can be very slow and cumbersome to navigate, especially since it has no hyperlinked content. You can find a full copy of the cruising guide, and a version broken into multiple PDF files here: https://db.tt/rEd5ywl4.

Colombia to Rio Dulce Cruising Guide (freecruisingguides.com). A recent and very well done cruising guide for this route.

Colombia Other. There are a number of articles and simple guides written by other cruisers which are not as extensive or as detailed as the official guide, but do contain a lot of useful information. A list of those I know of below.

CRUISING GUIDE FOR COAST OF COLOMBIA (updated December 2006). Lourae and Randy on PIZAZZ.

Cartagena to the San Blas The Easy Route. Suzanne Longacre. Caribbean Compass 2007.
Bay of Cholon Waypoints. s/v Nikki Wikki. 2011
Club Nautico Web site. Dated web site, but still has good info on Colombia & Cartagena. http://www.clubnauticocartagena.com/carta.htm

Sailing the Caribbean Coast of Colombia. Three part article published in Oct, Nov, Dec 2011. Constance Elson. Caribbean Compass. Also available from author as a single PDF.

Older Guides

The Cruising Guide to The Northwest Caribbean by Nigel Calder, September 1991.

Bay Islands (spiral-bound) by Julius M Wilensky, January 1, 1979.
"

Excerpt from "Western Caribbean Cruising Notes".

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Curtis...alEnabled=true


I have also used Nigel Calder's guide for Cuba. Very well done, but dated now.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Direstraits

BelizeSailor

...

Also in Cayo Largo on the south side of Cuba there is some really good Tarpon fishing....I would love to go there if is allowed by the Cuban govt.
...

Speaking of epic tarpon fishing. The San Juan River in Nicaragua is world class.

Video of a past trip there:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5f1b5zt1j...07-28.mp4?dl=0

[Direstraits]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Speaking of epic tarpon fishing. The San Juan River in Nicaragua is world class.

Video of a past trip there:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5f1b5zt1j...07-28.mp4?dl=0

Great Video....just what I am after. Thanks for sharing the vid and alll the info on the Guides.

Makes me wnt to retire RIGHT NOW!!!!
Would it be ok to PM you on some other issues?

Dennis

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Direstraits

Great Video....just what I am after. Thanks for sharing the vid and alll the info on the Guides.

Makes me wnt to retire RIGHT NOW!!!!
Would it be ok to PM you on some other issues?

Dennis

Great!

Do it! You never know when the game will end!

[caradow]

Originally Posted by Direstraits

BelizeSailor

Is there a better route than what I have laid out? At some point I have to go east against the wind. I was thinking I would have the Gulf Stream to help me get back to the Bahamas....

Also, there are ports along the way in Cuba. What I do not know is the clearance procedures for Cuba. Most come from the Keys and go to Hemingway Marina to check in - is that the only place one can check in? I believe there is a marina at the far western tip of Cuba....or there abouts - can I check in there and go east hopping from one bay to another....?? I do not want o end up in a Cuban prison

Also in Cayo Largo on the south side of Cuba there is some really good Tarpon fishing....I would love to go there if is allowed by the Cuban govt.

Also, what cruising guides would you recommend?

Again - thanks so much for your help - it means a lot!!

Cheers,
Dennis

You can clear in on Cayo Largo and then again in Cienfuegos if you choose to see the mainland. Cuba is fantastic and should not be missed.
I have sailed to Cuba twice and enjoyed both times yet there is a suffering there however the people are resilient .
I would suggest to leave the boat in Cienfuegos and hire a driver to see the country. Otherwise you will have to clear in with every port you visit.
Safe travels

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by caradow

You can clear in on Cayo Largo and then again in Cienfuegos if you choose to see the mainland. Cuba is fantastic and should not be missed.
I have sailed to Cuba twice and enjoyed both times yet there is a suffering there however the people are resilient .
I would suggest to leave the boat in Cienfuegos and hire a driver to see the country. Otherwise you will have to clear in with every port you visit.
Safe travels

Yes, despite the hardships they have endured the Cuban people are awesome!

[DragonflyBob]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Congratulations in advance!

I dont have a YouTube channel, but I've sailed these routes on a cat and have been in the W Carib for almost 20 years now. Cruised the region and been based in Belize/Rio Dulce/Panama.

The TC-Jamaica-Bay Islands route is not bad. Time your transit well thru the Windward Passage, it can get a bit sporty but the rest is normally easy. Lots of complex currents between Jamiaca and the Bay Islands. Factoring these into your route planning can make a big difference.

I suggest leaving the Caymans out of this leg because that will take you much further West and you will have to bash a bit more to weather to gain easting to make the Bay Islands. The angle is better directly from Jamaica to Bay Islands.

The challenging bit will be returning to the Bahamas/T&C. The prevailing winds in the Florida Straits are easterlies.

Happy to discuss the region with you.

This is a great thread. We have a friend who in the last year re-located to Roatan. We’d love to visit them there and we are contemplating a trip with our Dragonfly 32 tri. They moved their 40’ sloop there this past January leaving from Mobile and getting to Roatan in 7 days. They said the biggest challenge was dealing with current flow between Cuba and Cancun having to “get under the south side of Cuba” to best deal with it.

We are thinking the best time to visit is the late winter/early spring. We would come out of Gulfport, MS and my thoughts are to get a bit east to get into the southerly flow of the Loop current until you get to the Florida straits and have to get across between the Cuba and Cancun. We looked at possibly stopping off in Isla Mujeres but our friends advised us to try to go non-stop as they said you could get held up for probably 4 days checking in and out of a Mexican port stop.

Would love any feedback about planning and routing for this trip.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by DragonflyBob

This is a great thread. We have a friend who in the last year re-located to Roatan. We’d love to visit them there and we are contemplating a trip with our Dragonfly 32 tri. They moved their 40’ sloop there this past January leaving from Mobile and getting to Roatan in 7 days. They said the biggest challenge was dealing with current flow between Cuba and Cancun having to “get under the south side of Cuba” to best deal with it.

We are thinking the best time to visit is the late winter/early spring. We would come out of Gulfport, MS and my thoughts are to get a bit east to get into the southerly flow of the Loop current until you get to the Florida straits and have to get across between the Cuba and Cancun. We looked at possibly stopping off in Isla Mujeres but our friends advised us to try to go non-stop as they said you could get held up for probably 4 days checking in and out of a Mexican port stop.

Would love any feedback about planning and routing for this trip.

Yes, if you are up for the longer run then you can catch a little boost from the Gulf Loop and avoid most of the Yucatan current by catching the E side of the Gulf Loop and making for a point just barely W of Cuba, then make directly for the Bay Islands.

Spring months would be best. I would avoid a GOM crossing in Winter. This avoids cold fronts that you don't need to make this route anyway (Especially not in the GOM where cold front conditions can get very nasty).

Heading for Utila, or at least West End, Roatan, should give you a more comfortable wind angle

Spring is also the best time to cruise the W Carib.