"Unusual" project - having trouble getting the right build - custom needed?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

He's looking for luxury and to load the boat up. Unfortunately Max Cruise and Dazcat aren't great fits for this. They just can't take the payload.

Honestly any cat you fill up with stuff will suffer performance and safety wise.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Honestly any cat you fill up with stuff will suffer performance and safety wise.

But a boat with a 13.5:1 ratio is going to sink a lot faster than a Lagoon with a 6:1. Neither designer will suggest as the OP wants (I've talked to both about this before).

There are much better choices for what they are looking for.

[MicHughV]

For the life of me, I can't understand why you don't peruse the used boat market.

There must be umpteen 100's of vessels that will fill all your requirements and budget.

It will take some leg work on your boat. On this forum, you'll get many opinions, but nobody can do the leg work for you. Ultimately the decision will be yours, and yours alone.

There are many, many online yacht brokers with all manner of craft for sale. Find some in your neck of the woods and put your walking shoes on.

You need to (a) set foot on some to get the feel of the boat and get some real world experience and (b) get some real life experience by chartering some boats that fit your needs and wants.

With your stated budget, and not sure if you are just bragging or bullshitting or what, but you have a myriad of choices available.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

He's looking for luxury and to load the boat up. Unfortunately Max Cruise and Dazcat aren't great fits for this. They just can't take the payload.

Please read his original post in which he states he does not need luxury. In fact quite the opposite I believe.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by smj

Please read his original post in which he states he does not need luxury. In fact quite the opposite I believe.

You're right. I missed the bold NOT in his statement. Then yes, the Max Cruise or Dazcat would be a good fit. Sorry

[Lee Jerry]

I'll throw out another option that I don't think has been mentioned. It takes the used boat option a step further - a hurricane (or otherwise damaged) salvage vessel. Obviously, not just any boat will do, but if you can find the right one with "acceptable" damage it could work really well. These types of boats are certainly found in the SE US and the Caribbean but may be available elsewhere too.

Advantages include: cheap hull to get started; will want to customize the interior anyway so fixing a hole or two in addition not a big deal; much/most of the equipment you need, if not part of the damage (for example, mast and rigging, engines if not flooded, etc.) included, but money left over to replace what's needed.

Disadvantages include: limited inventory to find appropriate vessel; you may be required to doing repairs in situ, at least enough to get seaworthy to move to another location; said location would probably have to be in same general location (not going to cross an ocean).

Anyway, there's lots more to consider, but you get the idea.

[JPA Cate]

I'm going to intrude here, because I think something important has not been addresses: we have here someone who has stated he has $900k to spend. For most of us, that is a lot of money. However, our OP seems to have little to none of experience in small boats at sea. To me, this is an awful problem waiting to happen. Possibly this would not be a solution, but, I think he needs to do some sailing, and begin to learn seamanship, and then return to this board, wiser and safer (I hope). Imho, s/he does not have the experience to direct a naval ardhitect.

I apologize if the OP is offended, but the truth of it really is that dollars don't make it doable; what does are experience (sailing & direct experience of passages), and, so far as I can see, nothing beats experience on the water for that. Classes only get you going, then you need to learn a new environment--and not everyone enjoys it.

Sorry if I seem mean, but there'sno substitute for years at sea. None. None ever in your or my lifetime.

Ann

PS. A tiny bit of evidence of my pov is the numbers of cats we see vainly motoring to windward.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by ScienceSailor

What I didn't find was anyone to help me get an older boat refitted. I guess i need to visit a yard and ask around. I'll do my best near la grande motte during the show, or talking to people.

Thank you!

I think you said you are in the UK at the moment. A good yard to try would be https://www.multihullcentre.com down on Plymouth Sound. They are a proper working yard that used to be owned by Pat Patterson's (Heavenly Twins etc design/build) family and are now the home of Dazcat. Oh, by the way... They are going to be at La Grande Motte, so that's convenient

[ScienceSailor]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

He's looking for luxury and to load the boat up. Unfortunately Max Cruise and Dazcat aren't great fits for this. They just can't take the payload.

Yes, performance vs payload is something I'm now learning about

It goes a bit like this: small boutique builders need to differentiate themselves, so they aim for performance, meaning each iteration is able to sail even with 5kn of wind only, and "differentiators" for their press release go a bit like this: "Couple XYZ were able to circle the world TWICE and refuel only 4 times using a model ABC".

So performance is everything, and the design reflect that performance. They aren't meant to be mil-sim boats in the least, they are meant to be fun, enjoyable to well, SAIL.

The payload on outremeres for example is particularly light compared to other , similarly sized cats. But they don't see it as a problem, but as a 'feature'. Their boats will 'perform' better and they see the concept of 'loading up on tons of food' as detrimental to the performance of their ships.

So it's understandable. Thankfully other builders are willing to adjust to the demand, and , I think I can say this quite openly, who here haven't thought "If the you-know-what hits the fan, at least I got my boat to get out safely". As we live in a social climate that's heating up and division amongst ourselves has never been so evident, I think it's not unwise to catter to a segment of the population willing to make the shift not from a standard house to a 'sea bunker', but at the very least to a 'home office that could operate within the confines of a marina".

It's not 100% ideal but it's a good starting point, and customization kicks in at that point onwards. There are models out there that show promise, like the nautitech 34 with their 'smart room' (a bit of a marketing term, but hey, AT LEAST THEY GOT RID OF THE DAMN BED ).

Anyways, I hope my little adventure in dropping a good chunk of a million bucks on my dream project will be of interest to others. Cheers!

[ScienceSailor]

Originally Posted by smj

Please read his original post in which he states he does not need luxury. In fact quite the opposite I believe.

That's correct. Just to demonstrate my commitment, I own a 3m 4 floor home that's perfectly fine but have lived for over 5 years into the outdoors shed where I installed a shower and a toilet. I live in 10sqm2 of living space, and I'm very happy. I don't need marble tops and oak panels.

[ScienceSailor]

[QUOTE=J

Sorry if I seem mean, but there'sno substitute for years at sea. None. None ever in your or my lifetime.

Ann

PS. A tiny bit of evidence of my pov is the numbers of cats we see vainly motoring to windward.[/QUOTE]


Don't worry friend, I'm not offended in the least.
- Firstly, you are 100% right and correct.
- Secondly, it happens that I just don't want to doxx my contacts who are privileged to have sailed with the likes of Tabarly (RIP).

It is definitely on the card to get a minimum of 6 months of active training at sea with some of the best of the best, in all types of conditions.

You are absolutely correct that nothing replaces experience. All I'm doing is shortcutting things a bit. For example, I'm a genomist and engineer by trade. Let's say you wanted to get into genomics. I wouldn't tell you to go get 3 PHDs. I would guide you towards what experience has taught me through the school of hard knocks, then direct you in the correct path where blue oceans (sorry for the horrible pun) lie and THEN encourage you get your PHD.

There are no real 'shorcuts', but there's definitely a way to avoid 'basic mistakes from the get go' by addressing professionals and specialists (this community) .

Thank you!

[ScienceSailor]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

For the life of me, I can't understand why you don't peruse the used boat market.
[snip]
With your stated budget, and not sure if you are just bragging or bullshitting or what, but you have a myriad of choices available.

I apologize, because the format of this forum doesn't make it very easy to respond to everyone individually. I try my best to leave it as open as possible to not run down blind alleys in my search.

Evidently, I took great notice of the possibility to refit a second hand boat, and I have already started a search in that market. The major issue is that my background is into genomics and engineering, not ship building. Therefore, if you came to me asked me to build a center to say, provide a 23&me type service , i could not only help you, but I could immediately pick up the phone and dial 3 of my good friends who have the experience and capital to make it happen.

I do not have that luxury and expertise with ship building, therefore I must acquire it. The best way to do that is by reaching out to the community.

In other words, anyone can buy a 300k second hand large cat, but VERY FEW have the contacts to refit it PROPERLY, especially with how 'strange' my little project is (need for lots of DC power, autonomy, etc)

As for 'bullshitting', it would be a total waste of everyone's time, including mine, and there is nothing i value more than time. So rest assured that I'm very serious and that I will post updates of my progress, but I will do so only if i think it's appropriate and something this community would appreciate and benefit from.

Thank you and smooth sailings!

[Chotu]

If you want payload, try to find a Royal Cape catamaran.

These things blew my mind when I first saw them at a boat show.

They are the antithesis of my boat. The complete polar opposite. But looking at those hulls, you could carry a lot of weight in that boat. If that is part of your goal.

That said, a very large monohul could carry even more. Are we just looking at Catamarans because of the real estate for solar?

[MicHughV]

Well there is this option. I too, am an engineer by profession and undertook building my own boat. This is probably the ultimate way to customize what you would think is the perfect boat for you.
It's really not that difficult. A lot of work, yes, and somewhat time consuming, but the end result will be having something that would be exactly as you'd want.
I have come to know many people that undertook building their own boat. Designs varied from schooners to trimaran's and everything in between.
'jes sayin'....

[double u]

the word "payload" comes up very often...monohulls are totally ruled out? Banned from being considered?
On what grounds