Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[Roy M]

Phantom, see the thread on 40' Searunners http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post815114

[Boatguy30]

Mark-

He's not trying to dock his SR, but parallel park between 2 pilings probably less than 40' apart you tie bow and stern to. Coupled with an Auckland fine sailing afternoons sudden 45 knot squall and horizontal rain, you can see how's he having troubles. It's not too bad with a monohull on piles and an economical way keep a multi if the rows are well spaced. Wish we had piles here in Salt Run as no issues with buoys damaging the topside when the current is against wind. Also fit heaps more boats in a given area than a mooring field for around the same setup cost.

On a side note, when you see the CC 44 hanging out past all the mid 40 foot cats on the quay you get a better feeling that it is really only a boat for cruising.

Cheers,
Jeff

[clemon]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses. I'll give the feathering prop a try, and leave the rudder alone. I've got a 20Hp kubota engine, so the reversing should be pretty good.

The pile moorings at Westhaven are interesting, they're in sets of three, not two, one forward and two aft. I've got about 1 meter clearance on each side on the aft pilings getting in. There's only about 15 meters between the for and aft poles. So it's a beast getting in with a cross tidal current, which there is plenty of. Since you've got to clear the aft poles by going in straight, you can't come in "crooked" to compensate for drift. Of course if you've got to deal with cross currents somewhere, Auckland is a nice place to do it.

I have to admit bow thrusters are looking pretty attractive. I briefly entertained the idea that a monohull would be easier to deal with. Upon some retrospection, I realized that aside from the relative ease of throwing up over the side, which is good because people spend a lot of time seasick on a monohull, monohulls don't have much to offer.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by clemon

Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses. I'll give the feathering prop a try, and leave the rudder alone. I've got a 20Hp kubota engine, so the reversing should be pretty good.

The pile moorings at Westhaven are interesting, they're in sets of three, not two, one forward and two aft. I've got about 1 meter clearance on each side on the aft pilings getting in. There's only about 15 meters between the for and aft poles. So it's a beast getting in with a cross tidal current, which there is plenty of. Since you've got to clear the aft poles by going in straight, you can't come in "crooked" to compensate for drift. Of course if you've got to deal with cross currents somewhere, Auckland is a nice place to do it.

I have to admit bow thrusters are looking pretty attractive. I briefly entertained the idea that a monohull would be easier to deal with. Upon some retrospection, I realized that aside from the relative ease of throwing up over the side, which is good because people spend a lot of time seasick on a monohull, monohulls don't have much to offer.

Not sure if you really meant "feathering", like a Max Prop? They, "feathering", do have better thrust in reverse than a "folding" prop, like the Flex O Fold, but are less efficient the other 99.99% of the time, (when sailing or motoring in forward).

The key to decent performance in reverse with a "folding" prop, is use FULL RPM! It takes a lot of centrifugal force to counter act the reverse thrust trying to keep them closed, and at best they only open about half to three quarters open, in reverse. Ours still works great, although onlooking monohullers wonder why I rev the engine so.

The folding prop has another big advantage over feathering or fixed... They are folded back and out of the way when sailing, so far less likely than either a fixed or feathering prop to snag Sargasso weed OR a crab pot line!

Of coarse if the drive train = (shaft end & strut), is set up too far aft for a folder to fit, then going with a feathering prop is more logical than rebuilding the works just for a folder.

BTW, Regarding maximum prop diameter... Be sure to maintain at least 2" of blade tip clearance to the hull, when in the motoring position. If you're there now & need more bight to be "just right" for your engine, go up in pitch, not diameter. Otherwise, larger diameter is the better way to achieve more bight.

On our SR 34, we have a similar size engine... Yanmar 2 GM 20 F. It actually has a maximum of 18 HP, and in low winds on flat water, we cruise @ 6 knots motoring, topping out @ about 7.2 knots. Into a 20 knot headwind, more like 5.2! Then I wouldn't mind having a bit larger engine, and larger prop. (We consume < .5 US gal/hr, at this 2,850 - 2,900 cruising RPM).

Overall, we're very pleased with our set up.

Fair winds,

[Roy M]

I concur with Mark. Rev in reverse to slow down. My shaft is marked at the shaft log so I can hand rotate it for positioning the pin vertically when I transition into pure sail mode. Folding two blade props are hard to beat when it comes to sailing across a dense kelp bed.

[md7a]

I have an end tie slip between larger boats, so I kind of have to parallel park. With my outboard beside the rudder that gets tricky, and I often wind up a ways out from the dock with few helpers.

Anyone have experience with a "dock hooker" or similar tool to send a line ashore to warp in?

http://www.dockhooker.com/dockhooker/index.html

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by md7a

I have an end tie slip between larger boats, so I kind of have to parallel park. With my outboard beside the rudder that gets tricky, and I often wind up a ways out from the dock with few helpers.

Anyone have experience with a "dock hooker" or similar tool to send a line ashore to warp in?

The Original Dock Hooker

Will,
This is a really challenging situation for our tris. We once had dockage that required parallel parking between pilings that were both too close together AND too close to the bulkhead for the length of the boat! It required help from a lot of dock bystanders. We would come in at a diagonal & sideways from the end of a row of slips, (with every boat bow to the buklhead). We fended off the stern from the aft piling and "directed", then others pulled it in sideways "slowly" with ropes, while yet other folks fended off the ama bow as well. We appreciated the help, but unfortunately, since this was a very well known marina / bar in Marathon, Fl Keys, ALL of this "help" was VERY drunk, making it a Chinese fire drill! Needless to say, we didn't go daysailing, got our projects done ASAP, and moved on. In the solar panel photo below, (that you've all seen), you can see that we are in a slip that is narrower than the boat with the ama hanging out, AND we have the side pilling actually directly behind us!

The best solution in these extreme cases, is keep looking for a better situation! That's what we did. Several times we went on 1,000 mile long car trips up & down the US East Coast, with the Waterway Guide as a reference. We stopped at dozens of marinas that we had previously deemed "contenders", and always found something. A lot of marinas have spots too shallow for keel boats, but wide enough.

In the situation where we had arranged for private dockage in Pensacola Fl, we had the owner, (who was putting in pilings anyway), put them WAY out from the boat, (just like in our current situation in NC). This served us well in the 13' storm surge and 150+ MPH hurricane gusts we would soon get. You don't want to be in a tight slip in a hurricane! The problem then is... How do you retrieve your outer docklines when you go out, if the outer pilings are 20 to 40' OUT from the boat. In this situation, we have the outer docklines tied in well to the piling tops and routed to the boat, (the first time by using a dinghy). Then, to go out, we put a quickly removable 2# weight on the ropes bitter end and already have a "crab pot float" semi permanently tied 8' further up the rope from the bitter end. (It must be a tad more distance than the water's depth at high tide). We simply un-cleat the boat, and toss the weighted end of the outer dockline into the water, about 8 or 10' out from the boat. The crab pot float marks the now vertical section of dock line, and the rest lays on the bottom. When we come in, we lay against the "side to" dock, and then leisurely snag our outer lines by grabing the under water dockline, just below the float, with a long boat hook. Our current boat hook for this is a three section telescoping model, that extends to 14' and we use every bit of it in our current NC docking situation.

The pulling yourself in sideways trick, I already described in a previous post. (third photo) You just pull up parallel to your face tie as close as you can, and reach WAY out with that 14' boat hook, to your waiting LARGE coil of dockline affixed to the top of the dock's face tie pilings. If your dock doesn't have these, a temporarily affixed 6' tall 2X4 with a hook on top will do. In this case the dock end of the line runs to a cleat, and the 2X4 just serves to hold this 20' of line, (in a 6' coil), up in the air, so you can quickly grab it. So that the lines don't hockle on you in the "quick grab & pull" process, I'd use a flexible line like NER's "Regatta braid". Bare in mind, I can actually reach just over 16' with my long boat hook! From stopping the boat dead in the water with the engine, to jumping out of the cockpit, grabbing the boathook off of the cabin top, hooking the waiting coil of rope, and starting to pull us in sideways, takes between 10 and 20 seconds. My wife is doing the same on the bow end, but she has the luxury of already being in position when we come in.

This works well for us because we have a very protected marina basin where the side wind on the hull itself seldom exceeds 15 knots. We also come in with the board half way down, (all there's depth for here), to both improve maneuverability AND really slow down being blown sideways.

If your dockage situation is not at all protected, and it is both windy and choppy, or God forbid a current as well, with boats close in front and in back of you, then this may not work. The boat has to stay mostly still, "unattended", for the 20 seconds it takes to start pulling it in sideways, AND you need 20' or so of space, for & aft of the boat, as a "fudge factor". (It also takes two people BTW).

After a bit of practice, we have our docking here down pat. In some cases, however, perhaps yours, it's time to look for another marina.

Hope this helps,

[md7a]

Any developments on the rumored forthcoming electronic edition of the searunner manual?

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by md7a

Any developments on the rumored forthcoming electronic edition of the searunner manual?

I'll send you a PM...
M

[Roy M]

Here are some of the dodger concepts, sorry for the delay:

[Roy M]

Oooops, more to come:

[Roy M]

These are NOT final. We are playing with concepts at the moment. The final objective is to allow me, a big person, to comfortably enter the forward cabin, steer at the pedestal, and bask in the protection of the dodger while on autopilot. The ideal dodger, for me, will have excellent visibility, be able to stand on, look well, and be compatible with an aft boom support (to be determined later, and able to support a group of panels to convert it into a cockpit "room"). More later.

If interested, the designer can be checked out at : www.LonniePogue.com

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Roy M

Oooops, more to come:

ROY, I don't know if you want opinions, but...

The one I find more aesthetically acceptable so far, is left row bottom. It all gets so complicated. Ideally, you want sitting head room under the top, but JUST... This allows you to stand and see over the dodger.

In a driving rain or morning dew, you may have "0" vis through the dodger, but from 10% to 50% vis standing up, looking over, and constantly wiping ones glasses.

We're little folks, but have a smaller boat. Our pedestal is 2" off center to the port side, the wheel a bit small, and STILL it is a squeeze to get by the wheel, (we go by st side only), bend over, and ass first sit under the dodger, unzip the flap, then again... ass first, go below. Coming out is flat easy by comparison, but if the mast & it's halyards are dripping wet, we start out our day that way too, on the way out. Nothing's perfect!

Especially for a big guy like you, it becomes a series of compromises. Low windage VS plenty of room, Utilitarian VS aesthetic, simple VS complex solutions, time & expense of construction etc...

I might add, any portion of the windshield that extends further forward than the forward edge of the companionway slide, is unnecessary windage. It can even have the top = roof panel start right over the "aft" edge of the companionway slide, and still allow egress. Contrarily... going a foot AFT of the mast, with a reinforced cut out, gives you a larger "dry spot" while sitting under it in a gale.

We mounted all but the low, port side CB and aft facing main sheet winches above the dodger, to accomplish all of this magic, and even switched to very thin T-900 on the headsail hal. This was to minimize the size of the bundles of line, cleated all around the mast. (In 3' long but small dia bundles) They, and the winches, become a large part of obstructing passage otherwise.

It is a real challenge for sure, but I know you'll get it all sussed out!

Mark

[Mark Johnson]

Backed off a bit...

[Roy M]

Mark, thanks for your input. Bashing through the Santa Barbara Channel on a blustery afternoon is my test for WILDERNESS. I've thought a lot about this dodger for many years now, and I'm moving in a productive direction with it. When it is done, it will, in many ways, be quite similar to your own. I'm beginning to see the value of the "nacelle" for companionway entry. And mine will be a bit wider than yours, though not as grandiose as the one in this included attachment. I've been explaining the issue with looking over the top of the dodger to Lonnie, my designer friend (who is probably about your stature). We are about ready to fabricate a PVC pipe mockup of the frame to play with the dynamics that you describe, of entering, leaving, and simply hanging out in the lee of the dodger. At 6'2" and about 240 pounds, I'm thankful for the size of the 40's cockpit. My pedestal is offset to the starboard side, providing good passage, even with a 30" wheel. The mainsheet is on the aftside of the mast, forward of the pedestal, and the portside halyard winch, selftailing, does make me sidestep a little, but it's not bad. Also, like your own installation, I plan to incorporate a Bimini and an arch aft of the cockpit, forward of the mainstrength crossarm located traveller. I'll send more pics as they become available. The design process has been a lot of fun, though, with Lonnie's ability to produce such cool drawings and a wealth of ideas with little restraint.