Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[magentawave]

Hey Roy, I live in North San Diego County so will for sure check out your big Searunner soon. (Maybe I'll paddle my sup by it.) My last boat was a Newick Tremolino but I've been boatless for 5 years now. I've been renting mono's with a group every Sunday for the last month, which is fine, but my passion is with multihulls. One of the good things about renting the mono's though is that I'm thinking of my next boat which might be a 31' Searunner so I can take off and do some cruising.

Originally Posted by Roy M

I am on an end tie at Southwestern Yacht Club. Because I am working "clean", I get no hassle from the Harbor Police or the yacht club. My neighbors are always curious at my projects because they have little idea how boats are put together. Putting in the RIB rollers has been the object of much discussion and inspection. So, you can appreciate how happy I am that this all turned out so well. You can see my boat at the dock if you use Google Earth and zoom down to the only multihull, the widest craft at the docks.

[silviris]

Originally Posted by Cadence

For what it may or may not be worth. Find a Piver, I've owned both.

Thanks for the advice!

I've seen some Piver designs I sort of liked, but since I have kids I really want the separate cabins (and berths) available in the Searunner. The Pivers all seem to have really nice and spacious interiors, but very little privacy since everything is basically in one cabin. I've seen some with a very small aft cabin (barely big enough to sleep in) but I'd like something a little bigger for me and the wife. The (bigger) Searunners all have a nice aft dinette that can be converted into double berth and the forward cabins usually have at least two separated single berths (for our two kids). Being able to have separation from the kids at night is just invaluable!

[Cadence]

The 25Ft. Piver would point close up wind and sail before the wind with no one at the helm, just sail trim. I could not get the 31 Sunruner to point worth a damn regardless of the centerboard position and had to constantly be on the helm, up or down wind.

For what it is or isn't worth. I know it will piss off some Sunrunner owners.

Re: 31 bunks. The forward two are like coffins and the convertible double to a dinette is a laugh.

[Cadence]

PS, keep in mind the beam of either when finding suitable dockage. You may be better off with a mono unless you like sailing on occasion at 17 knots. Pitch poling is also a risk, they don't right after going over. On the plus for the Sunrunner sailing double reefed before the wind in15Fts she didn't take any green water over an ama bow.

[silviris]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The 25Ft. Piver would point close up wind and sail before the wind with no one at the helm, just sail trim. I could not get the 31 Sunruner to point worth a damn regardless of the centerboard position and had to constantly be on the helm, up or down wind.

For what it is or isn't worth. I know it will piss off some Sunrunner owners.

Re: 31 bunks. The forward two are like coffins and the convertible double to a dinette is a laugh.

Originally Posted by Cadence

PS, keep in mind the beam of either when finding suitable dockage. You may be better off with a mono unless you like sailing on occasion at 17 knots. Pitch poling is also a risk, they don't right after going over. On the plus for the Sunrunner sailing double reefed before the wind in15Fts she didn't take any green water over an ama bow.

Thanks again for the advice! I'm always looking for different points of view, especially when it comes to boats.

In this case, however, I've done a lot of research and looking around at various boat models and the Searunner seems to best fit my desired sailing "check in the boxes". I sailed on a Searunner 34 a couple of years ago and it seemed to point just fine into the wind for us. More importantly, though, I just really love everything about the way the boat is laid out. Sailing performance is nice and all, but I want something I'll be comfortable taking out for cruises, and sharing a single cabin with the kids 24/7 just doesn't do it for me (hence wanting the dual cabin setup). At this point I'm mostly just trying to figure out which size would be best for my needs, hence the long question about the variation in sizes.

As far as monos, I've sailed on several types and I just intensely dislike the heeling of that particular type of boat. Even a moderate heel makes me feel like I'm going to slide down to the other side of the boat. I go racing with a friend on his Catalina 25, which is apparently impossible to tip over. Even though I know it won't capsize, I still feel really nervous when the boat starts leaning over to the point where I'm almost standing up on the opposite seat. I know that's probably just poor sail handling, but sometimes you just can't adjust fast enough. The worst that happens in a trimaran is you drive the ama into the water for a moment until you let the sheet out.

I'm aware of the pitch poling issues and inability to right after a capsize, but those are things that can be avoided with conservative sailing and smart decision making, which is exactly the kind of sailing I'm looking for anyway; laid back and chilled out.

I know parking space for multihulls can be tricky and expensive, but I'm hoping to park it on a mooring where space isn't such an issue (once I get back to the ocean, anyway!).

[Cadence]

Best of luck in whatever you decide. We all have difference want and need.

[magentawave]

Except for a 26' factory built fiberglass Piver Globemaster I owned years ago that pointed high thanks to its deep centerboard, every other Piver I sailed was terrible upwind.

A couple questions please...

1) Did the 25' Piver that could point have a centerboard or daggerboard fins on the amas?

2) Was there anything unusual about that 31' Searunner that didn't point well?

3) I have never sailed on a Searunner but always assumed they could point. Can anyone else corroborate what Cadence said about Searunner not being able to point?

Originally Posted by Cadence

The 25Ft. Piver would point close up wind and sail before the wind with no one at the helm, just sail trim. I could not get the 31 Sunruner to point worth a damn regardless of the centerboard position and had to constantly be on the helm, up or down wind.

Originally Posted by Cadence

Pitch poling is also a risk, they don't right after going over.

[silviris]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Best of luck in whatever you decide. We all have difference want and need.

Thanks!

[silviris]

Originally Posted by magentawave

Except for a 26' factory built fiberglass Piver Globemaster I owned years ago that pointed high thanks to its deep centerboard, every other Piver I sailed was terrible upwind.

A couple questions please...

1) Did the 25' Piver that could point have a centerboard or daggerboard fins on the amas?

2) Was there anything unusual about that 31' Searunner that didn't point well?

3) I have never sailed on a Searunner but always assumed they could point. Can anyone else corroborate what Cadence said about Searunner not being able to point?

I can't speak for anyone else's experiences, but if you watch the Scrimshaw videos on outrig media, he shows a video clip of his 31 foot Searunner pointed really really high up into the wind (the shot with the wind vane). The 34 footer I sailed on impressed me with a similar pointing ability and even pointed fairly well when we raised the centerboard (some sideways drift, but not much).

It's possible that there was a defect in the boat or something not properly configured that caused poor pointing ability. I'm sure Mark or Roy could give a slew of reasons why the boat might not point well.

[Capt.Timbo]

We have had a forty footer for going on three years. You cannot go wrong with one. They point fine, except in a light wind you might find yourself in irons if you point too high.

Your welcome to look at my albums to get a better idea if exterior/interior.

Good luck!

[Cadence]

The 25 Piver only had fins on the amas. I see there is a 40 or 43' one for sale with an identical underwater profile. Pop Yachts or any no. of brokers. Good photos of the hull in lift slings. May have just been me with the Sunrunner. Both had came from the UK on there own bottoms. The South African I bought the Sunrunner from did extensive Island and South American sailing. I think 10yrs. If I weren't to old and feeble I'd probably buy the Piver on the market.

Just as a side note, berths can be hard to find with a tri's beam.

[Roy M]

silviris, I think you've sussed where Cadence is coming from. My own experience with the forty has been very positive. I was fortunate to be building my boat at a time when there were several also being built in my neighborhood of Los Angeles during the mid-70s. Because of this we fellow builders traded tools, advice, emotional and physical support to get our boats launched. Because I could see a forty in its advanced stages of construction, I was able to anticipate some possible issues and fix stuff before any serious problems arose. Specifically, I had heard that a number of boats had had issues with centerboard trunk leaks. My boat was the first all-West System forty, so this material also helped avoid problems. I was able to see that the sterncastle of the forty had a high crown at the aft end of that part of the superstructure. This was due to the extension of the lines which allowed for the large main salon/aft cabin between the centerboard trunk and the aft mainstrength bulkhead. Because of this, and because I was already an advanced builder, I fabricated my sterncastle side decks to be exceptionally wide (about 18"), then I placed the cabinside of the sterncastle outboard of the hull line about 6". This created a lower, more elegant cabintop curve, similar to that of the 37s. The cabintop was then installed using two layers of 1/4" ply, with carbon fiber bands athwartship, and then the cabintop was jacked up with a hydraulic jack until the epoxy went off. This is a technique called pre-stressing. As a result, when one walks on the sterncastle side decks, the downward load is transferred to the Tee-beam structure of the cabinside, then spread over the entire cabintop. The result is a rock-steady wing deck. Many of the Searunners suffer from bendy wing decks at this point and have to build in arches or other solutions. The picture shows the sterncastle "window" with the three smaller fixed ports that will be receiving stain glass pieces. A sister ship, WOODWIND, which once plied the waters of Lake Tahoe transporting tourists with an enlarged cockpit, gave me the idea for stained glass.

In my boat, the aft cabin (double the size seen in the 37 footer) serves as the master cabin with full queen-size berth, chart table, storage cabinets and the freezer) and through the keyhole, one enters the galley and sterncastle dining settee. The beam of the forty is 24 feet, the cabinsides are twelve feet wide and the side decks are about six feet each, allowing me to store a 10'6" RIB on the port quarter deck (with a custom roller assembly for launching and retrieving, single handed). It is a very comfortable boat to cruise in, very responsive, and for those who ever read the story of our near catastrophe (Multihull Magazine, unknown date in the 1980's, "A Nightmare Off Point Loma), a boat that can surf so well that it saved our lives. Needless to say, I am a complete fan of Jim Brown and his philosophy.

Sorry, the RIB shown isn't mine, but one I borrowed to confirm the feasibility. Ooops, the third shot is my new RIB, but the stanchions are removed due to my repainting the decks.

[silviris]

Wow, it's not often I have to go look up a word someone uses online, but I had to dictionary "sussed".

I too am a big fan of the Searunner series and hope to eventually get into one, once I'm back in San Diego and have the money to afford one. I know it's a lot of work and maintenance, but there's a romance to the boat that I haven't found with anything else. Like I said before, when I get back down to San Diego, I'll drop by for a look at your boat. And I'll actually drop by this time!

[Roy M]

I look forward to it. The interior is pretty stripped out at the moment. I've been repainting everything, including the underside of the deck, and much of the overhead insulation is being replaced, but only after I get the deck hardware reinstalled. My goal has been to completely overhaul all systems before taking off next May. Too many of my cruising friends talk about cruising as "repairing your boat in exotic locales". My shop is filled with cabinet work, the oven/stove, and all sorts of boat gear that is waiting to go back in. It's a bit chaotic, but it's proceeding to schedule.

[silviris]

Glad everything seems to be going according to plan for you.

I'm stuck out here in Texas for the next couple of years while I finish flight school, then I'll be back out in San Diego. Hopefully you'll be back by then.