The Reason People Are Moving Away From Monohulls

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Is there anything smaller that that freighter that would do well in those seas?

Nasty breaking wave, but little monos seem to float over this stuff quite well, so long as you are running with it and not relying on auto-pilot.

[s/v Jedi]

For the Brits, Dutchies and Norseman the North Sea is their cruising grounds and I can assure you that there are many cruising here but not many cats that I remember. I know of one at the moment.

[Jim Cate]

An observation and asuggestion:

From lots of reading here on CF, it seems that a lot of new sailors these days start ut with some sort of formal training... ASA, RYA or other providers. Once they become "certified", they start their sailing life by chartering. If they are from America, they often choose some venue iin the Caribe for doing so... what's not to like? Close by, well charted, warm and sunny in the NA winter, no long passages required and LOTS of advertising to promote the area. The Whitsunday area in Oz has many similarities and similar populations.

As a few folks have suggested in this thread, when chartering in such areas, cats make ideal vehicles, and thus many newbies are steered into their use. When they finally move on to buying their own vessel, cats are what they know, and cats are what they buy... IF they live or plan to cruise in similar tropical areas. Why wouldn't they? Perhaps this is the driving force for increasing cat sails to private owners... I dunno.

A further aside: Australia's east coast is an area where cats are quite popular. Mostly tropical or at least sub-tropical, and the Queensland coast is much protected by the Great Barrier Reef, providing a glorious venue for catamaran cruising. And there are lots of cats present! And in these waters, marinas definitely charge more for berthing a cat than for the same length mono. There may be exceptions, but if challenged I can post price lists from a lot with which I am personally familiar. Really, it stands to reason. The marinas have only so many linear feet of wharf. You can fit more monos into a given length of wharf than the much beamier cats, and the marinas here are largely full up. They want to maximize income. Ergo they tend to charge by beam as well as by length, and thus cat berthing is higher. There may be areas of the world where this is not so, but it ain't here in cat heaven.

Please note that I am not taking sides in the mono/cat wars, just trying to understand what drives the statistics that this thread claims to show.

Jim

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Rolling at anchor is way overstated, sure sometimes it happens and some anchorages are bad but I have to say that uncomfortable rolling while at anchor over the last full year of cruising might have been one night. Certainly not a reason to choose one over the other. Important items are comfort,safety,speed and live ability, anchoring not so much

100%...I hear this argument regularly,in reality I've had maybe 5 untenable anchorages in 8 years, rarely have I been uncomfortable at anchor. I also agree with your other points Robert, I'll add one more " bang for buck".

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[StuM]

Originally Posted by J Clark H356

So from Kentucky Lake thru Mobile, along the north coast of Alabama and Florida, along the West coast of Flordia, and down to Key West there were 39 cats. Small numbers.

There's lot more than 39 just at Mooloolaba, one harbour on the Queensland coast

[weavis]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

30,000 litres fuel capacity, 2,700HP of engine power. Up to 600nm offshore.

Not my sort of offshore cruiser.

Its where its going though for serious support ...GPS controlled for accurate placement etc... SOmetimes the best is worth it.

In 2015, My colleague told me he did a transfer in 3M disturbed seas..(Outside the Netherlands) he told me that the distance between the transfer vessel and the host ship did not vary and that it was like being in a computer game with everything going on around but his activity had been overlaid to the scene....one gentle step for him and he was aboard the transfer vessel and then whisked away to his base.He said it was like being aboard a small hotel ship... given coffee and something to eat on the 25 minute trip... the operational deck everyone sat in comfort and stability... Great strides in marine technology..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-isT9brXOI&t=38s

[DumnMad]

A slightly more realistic assessment:-

SWATH, the Art of Compromise | Martin, Ottaway, van Hemmen & Dolan, Inc.

[Mirage Gecko]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

An observation and asuggestion:

From lots of reading here on CF, it seems that a lot of new sailors these days start ut with some sort of formal training... ASA, RYA or other providers. Once they become "certified", they start their sailing life by chartering. If they are from America, they often choose some venue iin the Caribe for doing so... what's not to like? Close by, well charted, warm and sunny in the NA winter, no long passages required and LOTS of advertising to promote the area. The Whitsunday area in Oz has many similarities and similar populations.

As a few folks have suggested in this thread, when chartering in such areas, cats make ideal vehicles, and thus many newbies are steered into their use. When they finally move on to buying their own vessel, cats are what they know, and cats are what they buy... IF they live or plan to cruise in similar tropical areas. Why wouldn't they? Perhaps this is the driving force for increasing cat sails to private owners... I dunno.

A further aside: Australia's east coast is an area where cats are quite popular. Mostly tropical or at least sub-tropical, and the Queensland coast is much protected by the Great Barrier Reef, providing a glorious venue for catamaran cruising. And there are lots of cats present! And in these waters, marinas definitely charge more for berthing a cat than for the same length mono. There may be exceptions, but if challenged I can post price lists from a lot with which I am personally familiar. Really, it stands to reason. The marinas have only so many linear feet of wharf. You can fit more monos into a given length of wharf than the much beamier cats, and the marinas here are largely full up. They want to maximize income. Ergo they tend to charge by beam as well as by length, and thus cat berthing is higher. There may be areas of the world where this is not so, but it ain't here in cat heaven.

Please note that I am not taking sides in the mono/cat wars, just trying to understand what drives the statistics that this thread claims to show.

Jim

Jim I reckon you are on the money for Aus.
We owned three monos from 25 ft to 41 based around Brisbane.Also chartered quite a few bigger Monos around Whitsundays over about a ten year period then chartered a Cat.Sold the Mono pretty soon after and now on our second Cat in Cat heaven.
As for Marina costs we usually don't stay long but have been in most along the Qld coast and the norm is 1.5 times the cost of a similar length Mono.Really no big deal in the scheme of things.
Too late now and there are other things other than cruising we want to do over the next ten years but I must admit that although I truly love sailing if starting again my choice would be a power Cat.

[weavis]

I have no doubt in my mind that Multihull technology and hybrid power is always on the minds of engineers.

If I were to be absolutely honest with myself, I would have a multihull power cat if I could afford the daily ongoing fuel costs. The reality is that Sail power probably costs the same overall in replacement and repairs but the bills come in spaced chunks..

Cats seem to have location zones where the concentrations of them is higher due to weather and being desirable holiday destinations. I see more and more in the southern region of Spain, and more in Mallorca under private ownership.

The space on a powercat is unbelievable. Even I was amazed. A powercat seems to have a third more useable acreage than the same in sail.

I dont feel less safe on a Cat, power or sail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaLzOjwItBc

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

That does show what can be done with great skill and minimal but adequate design and engineering. No need to mention the work of the Greeks, Persians and even the Romans and Vikings. I will not even mention the trading cultures of the Med.

This current controversy is not solvable except by opinion.

Vikings partially excluded, the Med ships were mostly coastal boats that ran for shelter at the first sign of bad weather. Seriously, the Romans were horrible sailors.

Polynesians did significant long distance open ocean sailing. This is a matter of record not opinion.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by alctel

I see virtually no cruising cats around my area in the PNW either. Last time I saw one I think was in last July at the start of the R2AK.

In fact I see more trimarans!

Anyone know why that is? Marinas not set up to handle them? Harder to heat and keep warm?

In any case I feel the statement 'people are moving to cats' may be limited to certain geographical areas...

First you are in the backwaters of the U.S. cruising world, so most designs are later coming to the area. The S.E., particularly Florida sees new designs first. This is particularly true with the Charter operations in the Caribbean feeding used boats to the Florida market.

It's really a matter of time. We started in the Great Lakes and 10-15yrs ago a cat was a real oddity to see. They are still a small percentage but lately, it's become common to see them about.

I think part of the reason is cats are more popular with full time cruisers who need and want a comfortable platform to live on, so they are the first to make the shift. That's why you see a lot of them going up and down the east coast.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Au contraire, the wind is free; catching it is not. Lunches are not free either. TANSTAAFL.

By that logic, motoring is free. All we have to do is ignore the cost of fuel engine and maintenance.

[weavis]

The price of power cats does make my eyes cross and induces spluttering...

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by weavis

I\
If I were to be absolutely honest with myself, I would have a multihull power cat if I could afford the daily ongoing fuel costs. The reality is that Sail power probably costs the same overall in replacement and repairs but the bills come in spaced chunks..

The big cost with power cats is they can typically travel at 15-20kts. The means big expensive engines and filling large fuel tanks.

Outfit a power cat with a pair of 40hp diesels (essentially the same as the sail cats use) and limit the speed to 7kts and I'll give you 10-1 odds the power cat operating costs are at least 1/3 lower over 20yrs of similar use.

Just eliminating the sails, mast & rigging on a 45' cat likely puts you $20k ahead on cost. Assuming it's built from the ground up for trawler speeds (ie: 9-10kt top speed and cruise at 6-8kt), you can make a really efficient boat.

[Sos]

It doesn't have to cost more to own a catamaran. We berth ours in the Solent (not the cheapest of places!) and pay the same as a same length mono. Also same for lifting and storage ashore. This may change if catamaran owernership increases so keep buying monos

Some marinas charge more for a cat but we avoid them, same as most monos
would avoid the shallow / drying places we visit.
I see a small increase in cruising cats but I think most head off to go long term cruising.
There is however a large increase in catamaran fishing / charter / diving boats.
One reason for not so many cats may be that there is a huge choice of
second-hand monos but a limited amount of catamarans.