Sailing vs Power Catamaran - Time, Cost and Enjoyment

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

There was mention of flying kites. Or chutes from a rig.

Has anyone flown a real kite to handle winds from 90 to 180?? One you can attach to the foredeck?

That's something I'd still like to do as a nice compromise but it seems no one has done it.

I haven’t done it, but I have seen video of flying a parachute from a foredeck. And I can’t see why you couldn’t fly a kite from a foredeck and be able to go closer to the wind.

It would have to be a hell of a fitting though as all the sail pressure is coming to one point, whereas with a sail the pressure is distributed along luff and sheet.

[fxykty]

[QUOTE=Chotu;2949896]SNIP

2: I enjoy the journey a little while underway by sail. It's nice. It's fun. It's great when conditions are perfect like on a run. You can get somewhere and relax while doing it. However, 9 times out of 10 there isn't enough wind or there is so much wind the seas are rough and you're getting thrown around. The conditions are seldom right for comfortable sailing. So I end up motoring. A lot. I also prefer to be at the destination instead of traveling there. The traveling is something I put up with to get places. It's not the fun part. The fun part is having the solitude and peace of a nice anchorage along with the ability to go ashore and explore.

SNIP
[\QUOTE]


Before we bought our boat we looked at the then two yacht share programs here in Auckland. Both had mainly motor launches (of the sport sedan type, 9-13m) and only one or two sailing yachts. The managers of the programs each said that the launches appeal to people who want to enjoy their destination, while the sailboats appeal to people who enjoy getting there just as much.

They have way fewer people who want to sail. And that’s in a city called ‘City of Sails’ and with the Hauraki Gulf next door with sailing and anchoring opportunities in just about any wind direction and weather conditions.

Sounds like you’re more of a launch guy. If the cat you’ve got suits your purposes then sounds like it’s perfect for you. And you’ve always got you’re mono if you want to sail.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I've wrestled with this same question. Always have this gut feeling I would need to go transatlantic someday. Maybe you could lash some huge fuel tanks down in the cockpit to do it??

Also, what if you had a bare cat to start with? No mast, no rigging. Just a bare, high performance sailing cat with narrow hulls weighing about 14,000 lbs?

I have this now. It has a couple 30hp outboards and does 8 knots on one of them before it hits the Rev limiter on the outboard. I think this means it's under propped. I think I could get 10-12 knots top speed with the right props, but run more slowly when I want to have some fuel efficiency. Also thinking of upgrading the outboards to 40 or 50hp to really get it moving. I carry 150 gallons, or 600 liters of fuel. Gasoline.

What are the thoughts on this case?

Sailing could get this boat movie 20 knots. Would I be destroying it making it a power cat? Also, I'm thinking it's cheaper to make it a power cat. Thoughts in this special case?

I always think I need to be sailing, but the wind is never right for my destination, I want to just get there and enjoy the destination, I have a limited amount of free time, etc. So I end up motoring a lot these days.

I'd rather be there than sail, but is a cat like this going to be better to sail than to motor anyway, getting me there faster under sail?

As others have noted you seem to have a very light weight for your boat.

That aside while I am a great fan of outboards my experience with them has been on my Dad's old Privateer monohull and my Seawind. In both cases the outboard(s) were mounted in a well ahead of the rudder(s). This makes a huge difference in at least two areas. First it is much easier to control the boat if the screw is ahead of the rudder. More importantly to me the motor is much better protected from waves. If the outboard is mounted out in the open on the rear crossmember or takes up room on the sugar scoop it can easily be swamped or even hit by what ever.

Even with a long shaft high thrust outboard there can be issues with cavitation, and if the outboard is far to the rear of the boat in any kinda seaway the lower unit and prop can be lifted out of the water and slammed back in. There is a good reason the Yamaha 9.9 long shaft high thrust outboard is the go to choice. Not only does the long shaft and high thrust allow the lower unit to get lower in the water and turn a bigger prop; there is also an easy to find large choice of elephant ear props for the 9.9; all at a price you can afford. I don't think the outboards with more HP have such choices for elephant ear props; not to mention even the ones available cost an arm and a leg.

I have a friend with a Shuttleworth with a single 50HP mounted in a well of sorts in the cockpit. It scares me to death to be with him when he docks because he has to move fast enough to get water flowing past the rudders and needs an electric powered sled to get the outboard low enough in the water.

Bottom line is you need to check out where and how you will mount the outboard(s) and the cost and availability of elephant ear props for the motor you are considering.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Chotu

There was mention of flying kites. Or chutes from a rig.

Has anyone flown a real kite to handle winds from 90 to 180?? One you can attach to the foredeck?

That's something I'd still like to do as a nice compromise but it seems no one has done it.

Easy to do; but I don't know about the cost. Here is one example but there are others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGX-F5pzPDg

[pir8ped]

I appreciate the subject is the balance of time, cost and enjoyment with sail vs power.

But the cost and enjoyment factors discussed seem entirely self-centred. As in how many dollars leave the account. How about the cost to the planet, as in contributing to climate change? How about the cost of spewing out diesel fumes wherever you go and the noise no-one at sitting on deck at anchor wants to hear? I wouldn't be so condemnatory to say no-one should ever motor around, but I can't understand why these aspects aren't considered.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by pir8ped

I appreciate the subject is the balance of time, cost and enjoyment with sail vs power.

But the cost and enjoyment factors discussed seem entirely self-centred. As in how many dollars leave the account. How about the cost to the planet, as in contributing to climate change? How about the cost of spewing out diesel fumes wherever you go and the noise no-one at sitting on deck at anchor wants to hear? I wouldn't be so condemnatory to say no-one should ever motor around, but I can't understand why these aspects aren't considered.

Do you drive a car?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by pir8ped;2952232.

How about the cost to the planet, as in contributing to climate change? How about the cost of spewing out diesel fumes wherever you go and the noise no-one at sitting on deck at anchor wants to hear? I wouldn't be so condemnatory to say no-one should ever motor around, but I can't understand why these aspects aren't considered.

Because making epoxy and polyester resin, fiberglass, aluminium masts, plastic sail cloth etc etc etc is oh so very green

[pir8ped]

No I don't drive a car.

And I sailed the Atlantic route myself, using an old boat that was heading for landfill. I wouldn't consider buying/building a new one.

But what have my 'green credentials' got to do with anything?

I'm asking why no contributors to this thread, when looking at the cost aspect, consider any other cost than to the owner. No consideration of the cost to the environment, and none it seems to people around the boat.

Is it because climate change is a Chinese hoax? Wrecked coral reefs are just as nice as pristine ones? There are other people out there producing more pollution than you, so you won't hold back till they do? Or you think voluntary abstention is just a constraint on your freedom to do whatever you like? I'm wondering, it's really odd to me.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by pir8ped

No I don't drive a car.

And I sailed the Atlantic route myself, using an old boat that was heading for landfill. I wouldn't consider buying/building a new one.

But what have my 'green credentials' got to do with anything?

I'm asking why no contributors to this thread, when looking at the cost aspect, consider any other cost than to the owner. No consideration of the cost to the environment, and none it seems to people around the boat.

Is it because climate change is a Chinese hoax? Wrecked coral reefs are just as nice as pristine ones? There are other people out there producing more pollution than you, so you won't hold back till they do? Or you think voluntary abstention is just a constraint on your freedom to do whatever you like? I'm wondering, it's really odd to me.

Easy. Lol.

That's the second cost to cross my mind too. First financial, second, environmental.

That's one of the issues keeping me from pulling the trigger on power. So at least one person here thinks that way too.

I can't breathe near urban areas when particulates are high. I have Asthma triggered by that type of pollution.

The last thing I want to do is create more of that.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by pir8ped

No I don't drive a car.

And I sailed the Atlantic route myself, using an old boat that was heading for landfill. I wouldn't consider buying/building a new one.

But what have my 'green credentials' got to do with anything?

I'm asking why no contributors to this thread, when looking at the cost aspect, consider any other cost than to the owner. No consideration of the cost to the environment, and none it seems to people around the boat.

Is it because climate change is a Chinese hoax? Wrecked coral reefs are just as nice as pristine ones? There are other people out there producing more pollution than you, so you won't hold back till they do? Or you think voluntary abstention is just a constraint on your freedom to do whatever you like? I'm wondering, it's really odd to me.

Because it is a hoax. Climate changes with or without you. Has been changing as the dinos were around before they find their way in the tank. And when we are one day crude oil, some intelligent ant will ask the same question.

Best to stop exhaling when breathing, to not increase CO2.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by pir8ped

I appreciate the subject is the balance of time, cost and enjoyment with sail vs power.

But the cost and enjoyment factors discussed seem entirely self-centred. As in how many dollars leave the account. How about the cost to the planet, as in contributing to climate change? How about the cost of spewing out diesel fumes wherever you go and the noise no-one at sitting on deck at anchor wants to hear? I wouldn't be so condemnatory to say no-one should ever motor around, but I can't understand why these aspects aren't considered.

Probably for the same reason that people drive a car or get a bus, fly somewhere etc.. rather than walk or cycle.

[pir8ped]

'Because it is a hoax. Climate changes with or without you. Has been changing as the dinos were around before they find their way in the tank. And when we are one day crude oil, some intelligent ant will ask the same question.'

Yeah, that's funny, in a childish sort of way. Thanks.

[Simi 60]

Well, even though we have a powered vessel which pir8ped seems to despise so vehemently, you can barely hear the engine running from outside and we no longer drive cars and our fuel usage on the boat is now lower than it was on land.
Our electricity now mostly comes from the sun vs coal fired power and we have no need for a/c.

Therefore, us, having a large diesel powered vessel puts less of an impact on the planet than we did before.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by pir8ped

'Because it is a hoax. Climate changes with or without you. Has been changing as the dinos were around before they find their way in the tank. And when we are one day crude oil, some intelligent ant will ask the same question.'

Yeah, that's funny, in a childish sort of way. Thanks.

Sometimes only humor helps to overcome personal frustration with the rest of the world.

This media hype is simply ridiculous. Its like the Y2K bug, the Maya calendar, the end is near, the global cooling the forrests are dying, you name it.

Nothing is static and every atom of your body was part of something else during the last 10 billion years, including exploding novea, stellar dust, you name it. It is all nature, nothing to worry about. One day the earth will be assimilated by the sun, climate change will be a ridiculous glimpse compared to this. The end is near my friend, get used to it.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by pir8ped

But what have my 'green credentials' got to do with anything?
.

Everything when you are frothing at the mouth at how bad others are while you yourself sail around in a product made of plastic and toxic chemicals which, during manufacture, also flooded the environment with toxic chemicals.