Sailing newbie, insane fears and storage concerns

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by StuM

A one-off custom designed and built cat that was racing in bad conditions with a crew of disabled people.

Hardly a cruising cat in typical use.

Got any pictures of the 597 other boats that didn't finish the same race?

Nope.

[Eggbah]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You can also learn to sail, & whether you like sailing, by starting out on "small"/mid-sized boats. Like the Catalina 30 that a mate's had for his sailing school since 1990. Since on a 25'-30'ish boat with a fin keel, they're still fairly responsive. Enough so that you'll still get some immediate feedback from your actions. Though the experience will in no way rival that of something small. Which has pro's & con's. You won't ever capsize such a boat, but neither are they as thrilling (usually).

One other thing about boats that size though, is that you can get some ideas about what living aboard might be like. Since with some sailing schools you can rent such boats as part of taking classes from them. Including chartering it for a few days, so that you can sleep onboard at night while tied to the dock. As well as dining onboard, etc. And then as you get qualified to operate such boats, you can charter (rent) them in the more traditional sense. As well as (again) chartering them as part of taking more advanced classes, if you so desire.

Also, when it comes to power boats, like sailboats, there are a number of different styles. Many of them having loads of deck space. And in general, power boats have a lot more room inside than do sailboats of the same length. With the one exception being catamarans. Since both power, & sailing catamarans have a plethora of real estate.

There are also trawlers, sport fishers, recreational tugboats, & other categories. Quite a number of which are quite roomy. It all depends upon what the boat's optimized for. With any number of styles being quite capable of making longer voyages. Though usually voyages of a coastal nature, due to fuel capacities, & ultimate seaworthyness.


Have you spent any time looking at different types, & sizes of boats? As if you haven't, such would definitely be helpful in expanding your knowledge of boats, & what's available. And you can look at boats:
- in books, & magazines
- online, at websites which sell them. Such as yachtworld.com for example.
- attend boat shows. Both in the water, & on land. Which, given inexpensive air fares, going window shopping for boats makes for a nice vacation. Whether you fly somewhere warmer to attend a show as part of a vacation. Or even go to one overseas to attend a show/vacation/travel.

If memory serves, there's one coming up in Miami. San Diego. London. And lots of others. Most all of them in nice locales, where boating is part of the local lifestyle. But that have heaps of other things to do as well. Check on a few online, including what boats/boat manufactures will be there. So that you can get an idea of what's available... for viewing, as well as for sale. Plus there are quite a number of boat shows which have plenty of used boats for sale in addition to new ones. And at shows there are always plenty of boaters around that are more than happy to help you to broaden your horizons.

Honestly, most boaters, including those who currently own a boat, or boats, do as much (or more) browsing as those new to things nautical. Since it's a bit of a grown-up's toy store. So that coupled with a bit of travel it turns into quite a fun little adventure. And kids LUV them too, along with providing a different (exciting) perspective. My brother & I had some grand times when going to such when we were growing up (& plenty since then too).

PS: A few other resouces are things like (free, or dirt cheap) classes on boats, & or, sailing, from organizations like the US Power Squadron, USCG, US Sailing, local colleges, various boating schools. Such as the Port Townsend (WA) Wooden Boat School, & various educational entities associated with same. Quite honestly, there are too many to list. And once you start (playing with boats), it's a bit of an Alice in Wonderland adventure. With the end of the rabbit hole being nowhere in sight.

I've been looking for about 20 yrs. I was quite disappointed in the Atlanta boat show last year. It wasn't a boat show, it was a pontoon smörgåsbord. This is really the first time I've considered one with a sail.

Really considering buying something earlier than later. I'll still stick to the plan of buying a larger one 10 yrs or so from now. Thinking about buying something in the 30-35 ft range in a year or two. I need to learn first! I'd really learn my must haves and what's a total waste that way.

There are a few shows coming up in Florida. My husband just mentioned 2 to me a few minutes ago, one in Feb and one in March. If the one in Feb is during my son's winter break, I am going!

Dusting off my Cruising magazines now.

[Eggbah]

Originally Posted by Juho

1. Maybe a heavy "condomaran" with large hulls.
2. One extra cabin would be nice, but you could use the dining table too, as you do now.
3. There's plenty of storage space under the beds, but it may not be as easy to use as cupboards.
4. Yes and yes.
5. Lake Lanier was already mentioned. I'm sure you can find everything you need there.
6. You should try monohulls too. A boat with a heavy keel will not fall over. You might get used to them leaning on one side but not falling over. You can probably ride a bicycle. They are in principle unstable, unlike heavy keel monohull boats that will bounce back as soon as the wind stops or you lower the sails. Multihulls stay more upright, which can be a nice feature, but you might be afraid of flipping over in gusts (a fear that you should not have in monohulls (and not too much in heavy multihulls either)).

In a large monohull you might get privacy by walking to the other end. Boats with centre cockpit often have a spacious rather isolated bedroom in the aft.

If you start start learning now, maybe take your son with you whenever you can.

I'm starting to warm up to monos. Unfortunately, the ones that get the oohs and ahhs right now are massive (over 50 ft) and over a million (ouch!). That doesn't mean that I can't find something I love that's more budget friendly, I just need something clean and free from mold. I know, I know...moisture = mold, I will do what I can to keep it mold free. That's going to be one heck of a hurdle!

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by Eggbah

Extremely new to sailing, and by new I mean I have never sailed a day in my life. I had something that made a jon boat look huge when I was a kid and I have been at the helm of my parent's 48' Chris-Craft ages ago.



I'm absolutely terrified of monohulls and up until yesterday, I didn't even consider anything with a sail until I saw some multi cats online. Always wanted something like a motor yacht (like Hatteras, Carver, etc) until I saw the price and the lack of outdoor space.



After looking at the multi-hull cats, I'm really liking what I am seeing. However, as someone that doesn't know the first thing about sailing, I have to start somewhere and I can't bring myself to a single hull out of my insane fear of capsizing.



I'm a little discouraged b/c every website I go on to look at boats for sale, everything says "call for price" which probably means that I need to win the lottery or sell my good kidney on the black market. I know boating is definitely not cheap, but I don't want to sail like Ms. Vanderbucks either. I'm not really in a hurry to buy, but I need to get my head out of the clouds and be a bit more realistic about costs and whatnot.



I plan on buying something after my son graduates high school, he's 10, so I have plenty of time to research and learn. My current plan is to sell my cars and home and just about everything in it and live on the boat full time. That's been the plan for about 20 yrs so I don't think that will change, just the type of boat would change.



1. What's a good multi cat for someone that's very new to sailing?



2. Is there enough space to have a craft room aboard? I just need a place to paint and quilt. I guess my real question is would there be space to store a sewing machine and canvases in one of the cabins?



3. Do the beds have storage underneath? Do they lift up? Can they be modified to lift up?



4. Fresh water:

a) do some cats have a fresh water conversion system?

b) can you buy a system if not?



5. Is there a place that I can learn to sail near Atlanta or is that totally laughable?



6. I stumbled on pictures of multi hulls practically on their side, one hull in the air... please tell me that most keep both hulls in the water. Visions of the Bering Sea danced through my head last night and I think I would probably die out there. It pretty much turned me into a coast hugger after a few minutes and I will not be going anywhere near the Bering Sea. Is this a common fear amongst newbies?

Read the reports of people that have abandoned their dreamboats to the ocean. Many of those bought into this life hoping to learn to deal with their fear of the ocean and enjoy the ride. When things went wrong they abandoned those hopes, their boat and all the time and money put into it.

Have you ever been on a boat beating to weather? Beating is the right term for it. I have seen many tough guys begging for it to be over. Primarily on crew boats headed to rigs on a timetable that revolved around crew change. The longest trips were an average of 10-12 hrs. An eternity for some.

Imagine that going on for days? Weeks?

Just a few hours becalmed in 2-3 ft seas is misery to some.

I love this life. I have also loved rough riding horses, dogs that bit me and freezing conditions while hunting and fishing.

If you think you want to sail, learn to sail. A few hours on a teeny boat will teach you a lot.

Rent a Hobie.

Get involved with the weekend race around the marker bunch.

Many Cats are great marina boats. A good place to gather for cocktails or a BBQ. The accommodations under sail can be great. Owners love to talk of their drinks sitting still on the table while sailing next to a mono pitching like an unbroken colt.

I love the motion of a big monohull. Standing at the mast as she plunges through the waves on a reach is worth all I go through to get to that point.

Your questions indicate that you have a long way to go. It certainly should not begin with a boat purchase.

Put down the books. Forget YouTube. Stay away from boat brokers. Put away the sewing machine. (It might come in real handy later though.)

Just go boating. Sail and power. You may like it. Maybe not. Doing is the only sure way to find out.

[sck5]

I think it is bad advice to tell someone who said they were terrified of capsizing to go learn on a laser or hobie that is almost guaranteed to capsize when sailed by a newbie. In fact, the first thing they teach you when you start out in lasers is how to right the boat from a capsize. Small dinghies really arent the same thing as big boats. Bigger keelboats (anything over 25 ft) dont capsize under normal conditions. The ride is much steadier.

You may say there is "less thrill" in a larger boat. Sure. But "thrill" is closely related to "fear" and is definitely not the place to start for those who are nervous about the whole thing.

But definitely go get some sailing lessons. But do it on a boat that will stay on its feet.

[Sea Dreaming]

Fear is a good thing. It's the thing warning you that you are about to lose control. Notice I say WARNING and "about to". Fear is the thing that is telling you valuable information about what is going on around you. The "trick" with fear is not to try to "get over it" but to pay attention to what it's trying to say and then ACT accordingly.
Fear is really just a catch all word for emotions we can not define. So you need to start analyzing what you are really feeling. Work through scenarios and options when you aren't afraid so you have some decisions and actions to take when you feel "fear".
Learnin to sail is a huge first step in addressing fear. It really does not matter if you start small or large. Learning that you have an enormous amount of control over what happens to you is all that matters.
But go out sailing before you buy anything. Take a ride with a friend. Ask questions. Take lessons. If you still want to buy a boat, you will have more knowledge to go on so you at least get what you hope for. Minimum advice!

[UNCIVILIZED]

Going sailing in a dinghy isn't necessarily an automatic ticket to a capsize. My first year or two of sailing was with my dad in one, & never once did we go swimming. Which, is a decent way for someone of any age to learn how to sail. Meaning in a dinghy with someone they trust. Though yes, it's wise to explain what can happen (to the student) & how to fix it.
As, no doubt, was done with me. However that was early enough in my life (age 3) that I don't fully recall that conversation. But it was explained, along with other safety proceedures. That bit I do remember.

BTW, my dad had been sailing for the better part of a season before he (purposefully) capsized our 13' boat, solo. Which was many months after he & I started sailing.

However if a student's going sailing in a dinghy solo, then absolutely they need to know how to fix it. And also how to avoid it. Well, avoid capsizing 9 times out of 10. Ditto regarding handling any other onboard situations, adrenaline provoking & non. And I'm still not sure what category running out of beer falls into
Depends on who's onboard at the time methinks

That said. Supposing you learn to sail in a dinghy, including capsizing, & righting her. Then when you switch to a keelboat you'll have a much better sense of when she's overpowered, along with what constitutes stupid levels of heeling over. Plus how to both fix it, & how to avoid it in the first place.
And BTW, there are quite a number of small keelboats where at a certain level of heel you'd best get out & stand on the keel, just like you do with dinghy daggerboards. Otherwise you risk donating it to Neptune. Along with going swimming, perhaps at length.

To the OP, I'm hoping that you've picked out a good boat show. I'd hate to have you be disappointed. Well, you & the whole family. Especially your offspring. Heck, plenty of good schools have great programs (& scholarships) for budding/talented sailors. And as I alluded to before, it could take him around the world. Literally

[Hobiehobie]

Originally Posted by doublewide

Take it in stages. First you and your son need to learn to sail and your wife needs to learn to sail separately, and she needs to be taught to sail by a woman. Trust me. You and your wife should not be in the same beginning sailing class.
Then you and your wife need to take a live-aboard cruising course. Then you need to take the family on some sailing vacations in places like the BVI, Belize, Tahiti. Charter cats or monos; take another family or another couple along; have fun.
Then you retire and buy a boat. By then you will know what boat to buy.

Good approach...But how did you get from the post that there is a wife, that the poster is married, or that the poster is male?

[alexanick]

Dear Eggbah,
Just a little more to add to the already excellent advice you have received. Get not only sailing lessons but also general boating lessons. Check out the Coast Guard Auxilliary in your area. They offer boating courses for very reasonable fees, like $50.00. Then check the sailors at local marinas and ask them for a ride. I long for every chance I can get to introduce some one to the incredible gift of sailing. It is the reason that God created wind.
Ken

[Eggbah]

Looks like I don't need to rush to sign up for lessons. Apparently great minds think alike. One of my uncles (not mentioned in previous posts, I have a big family) wants to buy another sailboat! He said if he does, he will teach me. I didn't even know that he even knew how to sail! He used to own one back in the 70s and has had the itch to sail again. Knowing him, it's not going to be a small boat. I really hope he buys one soon. If he doesn't buy one by the fall, lessons it is.

Cap Erict3, yes, I have been beaten on a boat before. I was the one behind the helm of a 48' boat and the rain was so awful I couldn't see the front of the boat. The radar was not working either, so we (dad and I) were not sure if there were other boats within striking distance. Not a fun place to be.

I know how to operate a boat w/2 engines. It was easier than I thought.

I definitely have a very long way to go and I know that I will not know everything the day I purchase. Not buying anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Hobiehobie

Good approach...But how did you get from the post that there is a wife, that the poster is married, or that the poster is male?

I'm not bothered by it. I'm the wife, my husband isn't a forum guy. He's a nose in book guy. I learn what he reads and I teach him by showing what I've learned from others that have shown me.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Start here: Power boats can capsize and when the do they mostly STAY upside down. And then, very often, they sink. Multihull sailboats can capsize, even though they don't do it often. When they do, they stay upside down. Monohull sailboats CAN'T capsize in the same sense. They get "knocked down". When that happens there are two possibilities: 1) They get back up on their feet of their own accord due to some niceties of design that powerboats and multihulls lack, and they retain their mast and rigging. The rig may not be intact but will be workable in some fashion. 2) They get back up on their feet of their own accord, due to some niceties of design that powerboats and multihulls lack, but the mast and rigging have been torn off the deck, The rig will be gone and there may be holes in the boat. When the boat is right way up again, it won't sink UNLESSW it fills with water.

The worry is never that of capsizing. That worry is always subordinate to the worry of the boat filling with water. If a power boat is rolled over, that will almost certainly happen and the boat will sink. If a monohull sailboat fills with water it will certainly sink. If a multihull sailboat is rolled over the structural damage is likely to be so severe that the boat will fill with water and sink even though if there were no damage it would likely float upside down.

If you would be a sailor, the take formal instruction till you have sufficient insight into boat design and into boat handling that your irrational worry goes away.

TrentePieds

AKA if you want to know about boats and sailing, stay away from this forum.

Monohulls can and do capsize or roll through 360 degrees. Waves do it, rather than wind. This will frequently cause huge damage, not only to the boat, but to it's occupants. They can also sink.

Multihulls can capsize in strong wind if handled poorly. A well designed multihull should never sink.

And all this stuff happens very infrequently. But if you have an "insane fear" of disaster at sea, you can easily avoid it. Stay on land.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

AKA if you want to know about boats and sailing, stay away from this forum.

Monohulls can and do capsize or roll through 360 degrees. Waves do it, rather than wind. This will frequently cause huge damage, not only to the boat, but to it's occupants. They can also sink.

Multihulls can capsize in strong wind if handled poorly. A well designed multihull should never sink.

And all this stuff happens very infrequently. But if you have an "insane fear" of disaster at sea, you can easily avoid it. Stay on land.

Much of that comes down to the "captain's" ability, boat design and sea conditions. If there is paranoia about, out there situations, enjoy harbor sailing. Some of us like a little bit of adrenalin but I only like a certain amount .

[Eggbah]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

AKA if you want to know about boats and sailing, stay away from this forum.

Monohulls can and do capsize or roll through 360 degrees. Waves do it, rather than wind. This will frequently cause huge damage, not only to the boat, but to it's occupants. They can also sink.

Multihulls can capsize in strong wind if handled poorly. A well designed multihull should never sink.

And all this stuff happens very infrequently. But if you have an "insane fear" of disaster at sea, you can easily avoid it. Stay on land.

My heart belongs on the water. Land is for those afraid to take a risk. I'm just stuck here on land for now in total misery. I'm leaning towards a monohull.

I'm torn between the livability of the multi and the freedom of the mono. The multi will have all of light and sights, but the mono will give me the ability to go anywhere I want to go.

Luckily, I have quite a few years to decide.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Eggbah

My heart belongs on the water. Land is for those afraid to take a risk. I'm just stuck here on land for now in total misery. I'm leaning towards a monohull.

"I'm leaning towards a monohull" :-) for some reason that's funny!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Eggbah

My heart belongs on the water. Land is for those afraid to take a risk. I'm just stuck here on land for now in total misery. I'm leaning towards a monohull.

They're certainly cheaper.