Saba 50 vs Antares

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by cwjohm

Not meaning to invoke thread drift here, but this brings up a point. IMO a boat like this really is too difficult for a couple to sail, so you need a professional skipper. I understand you had one on your boat.

The option of a boat around this length can eliminate itself based not only on purchase cost, but moreso on ongoing costs in consideration of the costs of professional skipper.

However, I suppose the option of paying less for a second hand boat and thereby covering the cost of a skipper for a few years presents is something to be considered.

Totally agree with you on this. Yeloya has one in his marina and took me for a test sail. What an absolute brute machine. I've never felt power in a sailboat like this one generated. But he knows how to sail very well and had two mates along who worked fast and hard to keep the boat trimmed. That's not to say you have to drive one that hard, but you can. I don't think it realistic for a couple but three for sure could handle her. And you don't need a professional skipper. But IMO Med mooring is best done with three and any cat over 50' is best to have two competent sailors on board.

As far as cost, my first captain (I only used him a few times) charged $150 per day. The guy who co-captained with me across the Atlantic charged $75/day. You can get a good mate to help on cleaning and sailing for that about anywhere. So, yes, you can really justify hiring crew to assist sailing if you need them.

I'm considering hiring a mate for next year, btw. We only sail for a few months in a row so spending $5k for an extra hand would be nice. My son was if for the last 5 years but he's got a full time job now - dang it!

[cwjohm]

The trouble is that when you say $150 per day it sounds great, but when you consider this is $55K per annum you become a bit more sanguine.

I can get crew for the Helia for airfares and meals, but for a 60' fast boat I feel I would need to up spec to specialised and experienced crew. I will never find out until I try I guess.

My thinking was that if I buy new then I have a significant amount of depreciation. If I buy well after the depreciation period (say 7 years) the savings I make on depreciation could be spent on crew. One would hope that boats like Tag 60, 5X, Catana 59 etc should still be in pretty good nick after 5-7 years.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

The Antares 44 for sale which I posted here not too long ago is under contract. Went pretty quickly.

I thought it would to be honest.. not sold our house yet so unable to go offering money on boats like that. I'd be curious to know what offer was accepted. It looked like an exceptionally well equipped boat though.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by cwjohm

Not meaning to invoke thread drift here, but this brings up a point. IMO a boat like this really is too difficult for a couple to sail, so you need a professional skipper. I understand you had one on your boat.

The option of a boat around this length can eliminate itself based not only on purchase cost, but moreso on ongoing costs in consideration of the costs of professional skipper.

However, I suppose the option of paying less for a second hand boat and thereby covering the cost of a skipper for a few years presents is something to be considered.

I can't help but agree.. my thread began because I felt if the boat was right we could happily manage the Antares and with a little more work the 50.. So I Have been looking at similar 50 footers.. but it doesn't sit well with us at all at the idea of having to have a skipper.. as a Liveaboard we just wouldn't be able to relax fully.

[Sand crab]

I'll bet it was close to asking and probably less than 10% difference. I've noticed that these used boats all have a hefty price tag and they don't last on the market for long. It is a sellers market for these.

[Sand crab]

Thread drift. I'm not really familiar with the C581/582 so I looked them over. It appears a self tacking jib is standard and most are also equipped with a genoa or gennaker. If you were in normal sailing mode and using the jib then it should be fairly easy handling for a cat this size. Just turn the wheel to tack. When the poop hits the air circulating device then you need some qualified people.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Thread drift. I'm not really familiar with the C581/582 so I looked them over. It appears a self tacking jib is standard and most are also equipped with a genoa or gennaker. If you were in normal sailing mode and using the jib then it should be fairly easy handling for a cat this size. Just turn the wheel to tack. When the poop hits the air circulating device then you need some qualified people.

Sand Crab, with all due respect, have you ever sailed on a cat over 50'? Easy it ain't easy regardless of the sail plan. And regardless of the sailing, cleaning and maintenance is a near full time job. A 58' Catana is nothing to be trifled with, but what a value. This boat can take you pretty much anywhere.

[Sand crab]

Never sailed anything over 50' but I was just making the point that the self tacking jib makes this one a bit easier than most in that size.

[cwjohm]

Many have self tacking jibs. e.g. 5X but this is entirely irrelevant. For normal sailing the skipper would be reading a book whilst the owner sailed the boat. The skipper is there for abnormal sailing circumstances, manouvering the boat in close quarters and maintaining the boat. Most people, having spent that sort of money, want to enjoy it and not be a slave to their boat.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by cwjohm

Many have self tacking jibs. e.g. 5X but this is entirely irrelevant. For normal sailing the skipper would be reading a book whilst the owner sailed the boat. The skipper is there for abnormal sailing circumstances, manouvering the boat in close quarters and maintaining the boat. Most people, having spent that sort of money, want to enjoy it and not be a slave to their boat.

Cw, IMO the reason for a "skipper", or rather competent crew, is to allow you to get off the boat and tour the location your at without worry. And clean of course. By far my largest problem with cruising - period - is the worry of leaving the boat unattended for a full day at a time when not in a marina.

How does this relate to the Saba/Antaries - ? Well, the thread has drifted clear of shore.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Cw, IMO the reason for a "skipper", or rather competent crew, is to allow you to get off the boat and tour the location your at without worry. And clean of course. By far my largest problem with cruising - period - is the worry of leaving the boat unattended for a full day at a time when not in a marina.

How does this relate to the Saba/Antaries - ? Well, the thread has drifted clear of shore.

My personal opinion is if the boat is to large for you to clean or to large for you to competently anchor then the boat is probably to large for you to own. But then I guess if you have the money.......but then again to me that isn't cruising. I'd rather book a trip on a cruise ship!

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by smj

My personal opinion is if the boat is to large for you to clean or to large for you to competently anchor then the boat is probably to large for you to own. But then I guess if you have the money.......but then again to me that isn't cruising. I'd rather book a trip on a cruise ship!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion right! But your point is missed on me. I've sailed my 56' boat some 11,000 nm over the last 5 years without a hired hand except on my ocean crossing. Where have you gone over the last 5 years SMJ? Are you "cruising"? No one who is considering a 50' cat should underestimate the amount of work entailed, but that has nothing to do with their pocket book. Skill level, sure.

[smj]

Sorry Pallaran I must have not interpreted your post correctly. I commend you for having sailed your 56' cat without crew, that is cruising. Over the last 5 years we have similar mileage but spanned over 3 different catamarans. I guess the definition of cruising is different depending on the person. When I get to the point where my wife and I can't take care of our boat then it's time for me to give it up. Maybe that's why I like smaller boats:-)

[Palarran]

No problem SMJ, I actually would like a smaller cat myself. We have had so many friends join us over the years it's been great. But times are changing and we have fewer families so a 45 to 50' would be great. That's why I really like the SF50.


But there's a part of me that want's that Catana and a crewmate

[Hugh Howey]

Originally Posted by Palarran

What's unbelievable is that you could get this one for a hundred grand less (asking).
Catamaran 2002 CATANA 581 Catamaran For Sale

Has to be the deal of the decade for someone capable of sailing her.

If it helps anyone, I went through this boat right before the Miami show this year. She's sitting off Las Olas Blvd. in Ft. Lauderdale, and I live just a little north of there. I was looking at used and new cats prior to the boat show.

AURORA needs a little work in cosmetics, but it was a seriously tempting boat. A lot of cat for the money. Well laid out for living aboard. As others pointed out up-thread, it's probably too much for a cruising couple, unless you can afford to hire people to help maintain her. This is a big boat. The deck seemed like it was 8' off the water. The spars are enormous. I'm sure she flies, but I don't know that I'd feel like I was in control of her, or if she had me along for the ride.

Compare this to the 57' FP Sanya that I was on just a couple weeks prior, which I felt comfortable sailing by myself. It had the reduced mast rig, and didn't launch itself out of the water. Much heavier boat, so stood up tall and really held fast to the water even in 35 knots of wind.

But if you have the money to hire people on, or you are an advanced skipper, AURORA looked like a great investment. She really needs someone living on her and caring for her.