Osmosis treatment

[YesIsail]

Defenetely an asset.

Bad for Fp because osmosis showed up before the 5th year and has to pay for it, good for the owner because no more osmosis problem ever.

Osmosis is a problem that can show up in any given moment of a boats life, who says lagoons will not develop it in say 10 years...? Lagoon wont pay for the repair with a boats age longer than 5 years.

The new models of fp and lagoon are designed for charter business, not good for sailing in moderate-strong conditions. The old models, the ones affected by osmosis, are way better for sailing and also the space is not bad at all.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by YesIsail

Osmosis is a problem that can show up in any given moment of a boats life, who says lagoons will not develop it in say 10 years...?

While this statement is relatively somewhat true, boatyards are littered with blistered FP's and not blistered Lagoons. Even 10yr old Lagoons.

So your statement is a deflection - FP have blistering problems that others do not. The fact that a random boat or two from another manufacturer might develop blisters over many years is meaningless.

Would you really choose a manufacturer's boat that will blister badly just because it sails slightly better than one from another manufacturer? Wouldn't you rather have a boat that sails a lot better and doesn't blister at all? Those widely exist outside of FP.

And for clarity, the newer FP's are the ones blistering - starting with the Lavazzi model, I think, and continuing to the present day. I have seen almost no Athenas, Venezias, Bahias, Belizes, etc with blistering problems.

Mark

[YesIsail]

Originally Posted by colemj

While this statement is relatively somewhat true, boatyards are littered with blistered FP's and not blistered Lagoons. Even 10yr old Lagoons.

So your statement is a deflection - FP have blistering problems that others do not. The fact that a random boat or two from another manufacturer might develop blisters over many years is meaningless.

Would you really choose a manufacturer's boat that will blister badly just because it sails slightly better than one from another manufacturer? Wouldn't you rather have a boat that sails a lot better and doesn't blister at all? Those widely exist outside of FP.

And for clarity, the newer FP's are the ones blistering - starting with the Lavazzi model, I think, and continuing to the present day. I have seen almost no Athenas, Venezias, Bahias, Belizes, etc with blistering problems.

Mark

Mark, of course i prefer a boat without blisters, but osmosis if treated well is not a huge problem. If blisters show above the waterline, just fix them when you take the boat out of the water for bottom job, wnd of the story.

Lagoons are not on the yards for osmosis, it is rare. They just have other problems.

We need more time to see how the new breed of catamaran designs stand time.

[cwjohm]

And for clarity, the newer FP's are the ones blistering - starting with the Lavazzi model, I think, and continuing to the present day. I have seen almost no Athenas, Venezias, Bahias, Belizes, etc with blistering problems.

First of all let me say I am no great fan of FP for various reasons nothing to do with blistering. However, having looked at various production boats now I can see they are all built to a price and you have to approach purchases of production boats with an open mind knowing this is the case and further expenditure will be necessary depending on the boat.

However, I find this issue of blistering to be full of misinformation.

For absolute clarity.

FPs manufactured between 2005 and 2010 show blistering problems under the waterline and as a result above the waterline. Since then FP have been applying vinylester coatings to the waterline. There would be at least 20 owners posting here who have FP after 2010 and none have blistering issues. FP are manufacturing more Helias than any other production boat at this time. If blistering were an issue there would be an uproar on these channels.

Boatyards are not littered with boats having rectification. Most of the problems have now surfaced and have been rectified. There is absolutely no reason why a bottom peeled boat should not last as long as any other production boat. In fact a recent bottom peeled Lavezzi here was keenly sought by a number of buyers.

Other production models do have above the waterline blistering, and there is currently no evidence that FP suffers from this any more than any other post 2010.

If I was interested in an FP manufactured prior to 2011 and it had not had rectification I would be dropping my price to allow for the possibility of this event. If it was not needed I would be ahead. Otherwise I would still have a good boat.

I would hate to see people not buying a good boat due to disinformation provided by a few (albeit understandably) disgruntled previous FP owners.

[downunder]

I don't think that any one purchasing a second hand cat would like to see or imagine a bottom peel in their future.

[colemj]

OK, so not to present day. My main point was that the older FP's did not suffer osmosis, while the newer ones did. This was in response to a poster saying the older FP boats suffered osmosis, which I have not seen like the newer ones. Glad to see they fixed the problem in the past couple of years, but that still leaves a lot of problem boats out there.

I have literally seen boatyards associated with charter fleets littered with FP boats with serious osmosis problems (but my use of that word in my post was to borrow off the post I was answering). Some were being peeled to the core itself and all of them were having serious laminate removed - not just gelcoat. This was a lot of very serious osmosis.

There is at least one, and I think two, people on this forum with Lavezzi's that were peeled and rectified who have had recurring osmosis since. So FP remediation may not be the end of the problem.

I am not a disgruntled previous FP owner and do not have a dog in this in any sense. Just passing on observations.

Mark

[yeloya]

[QUOTE=YesIsail;1498967]Defenetely an asset.

Bad for Fp because osmosis showed up before the 5th year and has to pay for it, good for the owner because no more osmosis problem ever.

Osmosis is a problem that can show up in any given moment of a boats life, who says lagoons will not develop it in say 10 years...? Lagoon wont pay for the repair with a boats age longer than 5 years.

This is not true. If a boat develops a blister , it's pretty much detectable in 2 to 3 years. If not, it's very unlikey to happen in 10 years or after. If you use the right resin and the right way, you may never see it. We have a 45 years old Swan in our yard without any sign of osmosis. Likewise, I have never seen (yet) any Lagoon with osmosis. Any FP model before Lavezzi also never suffered from osmosis even after so many years.

It is true that many brands moved towards charter market with larger, bulkier hulls and even fly bridges. The fastest FP that I have sailed was a Fidji 39. The hulls were so slimmed that they could easyly fit in those of Lipari of same size..
Nevertheless, one cannot say that new models don't sail well. They will never be as fast as Catana's or Outremer's but they can safely take you anywhere around the globe. (One Orana has rounded the Cape Horn and another Salina recently did the Northern passage)
I did twice the Atlantic with my Orana, averaging 180 nm a day in a very relaxed mode, didn't break anything and more importantly never felt unsafe or in danger any moment..

All in all FP are good value for money. If I could afford I would go in the following order :
-Gunboat
-Outremer 5 X
-Catana 55

Cheers

Yeloya

[colemj]

Originally Posted by downunder

I don't think that any one purchasing a second hand cat would like to see or imagine a bottom peel in their future.

Can you imagine how the ones purchasing new from the factory felt?

Mark

[YesIsail]

I attach a picture i took today at the yard of this boat that has just been peeled it shows that also boats older than 5 years can develop osmosis. In fact this boat is 15 years old.

[colemj]

Again, from a previous post"

"So your statement is a deflection - FP have blistering problems that others do not. The fact that a random boat or two from another manufacturer might develop blisters over many years is meaningless."

Nobody is saying osmosis only exists in FP boats. But there is a large number of FP boats produced over at least 5yrs that have systemic osmosis problems. This is not normal.

Mark

[Gordon]

Yeloya, well said, and from someone as you with many years experience with FP as well as many other manufacturers.
We purchased the first Orana 44 to be imported into Australia through MHS, and yes we did get blisters below the waterline. The hull was peeled and repaired with the support from MHS and FP. There were no blisters above the waterline. The new owners were relieved to know that this issue had been dealt with and that the new hull cover would not give further problems.
We now own a He'lia 44 currently spending winter in the beautiful port of Marmaris, Turkey.
To 'neilpride' Wow, I have not heard of the blister issues you say you have seen on a He'lia, can you please provide more detail on the boat ( Helia ) you say has blisters. I would be very surprised if this is so, as FP have modified the build process and materials now used on their new boats. As Yeloya has said he owns hull#1 and #5 and they show no signs of blisters.

To those Australians looking to purchase a new or secondhand catamaran I can only say that our experience with the team at MHS has been a very positive one, especially with their continuing support, throughout the purchase process and any of our warranty issues,which have been minimal on our new He'lia.

Regards Gordon.

[Dod42]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Yeloya, well said, and from someone as you with many years experience with FP as well as many other manufacturers.
We purchased the first Orana 44 to be imported into Australia through MHS, and yes we did get blisters below the waterline. The hull was peeled and repaired with the support from MHS and FP. There were no blisters above the waterline. The new owners were relieved to know that this issue had been dealt with and that the new hull cover would not give further problems.
We now own a He'lia 44 currently spending winter in the beautiful port of Marmaris, Turkey.
To 'neilpride' Wow, I have not heard of the blister issues you say you have seen on a He'lia, can you please provide more detail on the boat ( Helia ) you say has blisters. I would be very surprised if this is so, as FP have modified the build process and materials now used on their new boats. As Yeloya has said he owns hull#1 and #5 and they show no signs of blisters.

To those Australians looking to purchase a new or secondhand catamaran I can only say that our experience with the team at MHS has been a very positive one, especially with their continuing support, throughout the purchase process and any of our warranty issues,which have been minimal on our new He'lia.

Regards Gordon.

Same

[Le Doume]

Gentlemen ,
You are going way " off course " here , this thread was not about the local distributor or the response to warranty issue by FP , it was about a " lack of disclosure " of the problem at the time of negotiation , and we know what close ties Gordon has with the Australian distributor and will keep this in mind when reading is " unbiased opinion" , but no matter what you are saying , FP has had , and still has an osmosis issue with their product , I have seen a lipari with it , a Salina , Mahe , and I have it in good authority ( insider information ) that yes shock horror , Helias are also affected .
So happy sailing and fair wind to all , by the way , in the manufacturer's section of the forum , under Foutaine Pajot , you will find a post with an attachment that should be welcomed by all with an " affected" boat
Cheers

[Multiuso]

Originally Posted by Le Doume

My work is done
Thank you to all who have engaged in this thread , having been a victim of FP's lack of care My sole intention was to bring awareness to our multihull sailing community , my Lavezzi had been treated with a bottom peel under warranty when owned by its original owner , I purchased the vessel 14 months later , within 8 months blisters stated to appear on both hulls and I was informed then that this was only Aesthetic , well some of us , and me in particular , care about what our boats look like , and unfortunately te issue needs to be fixed at great expense before reselling the boat ( don't I know it ! )
I have now changed brand , and for the rest of my sailing days will warn fellow sailors who are thinking of buying FP's product as unfortunately , the brokers , and the appointed FP's distributor will shy away from ever discussing this problem
Happy sailing and fair wind to all

Let’s try to get this straight Le Doume as it all sounds a bit confusing.
You seem to know a lot about boats, cruising, multihulls but more specifically about FP and even more so about osmosis, owning an FP yourself which needs a hull peel. OK
You know all about FP warranty procedure, their policies, you even know how ‘EXTREMELY common’ those issues are…
You claim to have been a victim of the brand and just decided to go online as your ‘ work ’ is to warn us.
Many thanks for this. We are all grateful.
Before fulfilling your mission though, all you can think of is to take your good friend to buy a used boat built by the careless FP yard listed by their untrustworthy agent and you would not share your amazing experience with him?
Your friend must be thankful...
You said he was informed by the broker ‘for some unknown reason’ and got his money back but this allows you to question their honesty?
Is this the same agent who has treated numerous cases of hull peels spending some of its own money for his loyal clients?
Interesting ‘true story’ indeed… Thanks again. Everyone will be able to make their own opinion about it.
FP did not satisfy your needs with warranty but did you buy the boat new from FP or at least used from their official agent?
Is this what gets you so upset?
No doubt your 'work is done' and the value of your own boat is probably rising right now. It will be interesting to see how well you can sell her.
You now have 'changed brand’ already though. Can you enlighten us on this better one?
Happy sailing!

[Le Doume]

Originally Posted by Multiuso

Let’s try to get this straight Le Doume as it all sounds a bit confusing.
You seem to know a lot about boats, cruising, multihulls but more specifically about FP and even more so about osmosis, owning an FP yourself which needs a hull peel. OK
You know all about FP warranty procedure, their policies, you even know how ‘EXTREMELY common’ those issues are…
You claim to have been a victim of the brand and just decided to go online as your ‘ work ’ is to warn us.
Many thanks for this. We are all grateful.
Before fulfilling your mission though, all you can think of is to take your good friend to buy a used boat built by the careless FP yard listed by their untrustworthy agent and you would not share your amazing experience with him?
Your friend must be thankful...
You said he was informed by the broker ‘for some unknown reason’ and got his money back but this allows you to question their honesty?
Is this the same agent who has treated numerous cases of hull peels spending some of its own money for his loyal clients?
Interesting ‘true story’ indeed… Thanks again. Everyone will be able to make their own opinion about it.
FP did not satisfy your needs with warranty but did you buy the boat new from FP or at least used from their official agent?
Is this what gets you so upset?
No doubt your 'work is done' and the value of your own boat is probably rising right now. It will be interesting to see how well you can sell her.
You now have 'changed brand’ already though. Can you enlighten us on this better one?
Happy sailing!

Ho dear , here we go
YES it is a true story
Yes I do have a reasonable knowledge about boats , yes I did have a Lavezzi ,
YES I do not quite a lot about FP warranty policies & procedures
YES my lavezzi was treated under warranty as the original owners wanted the problem fixed
NO I did not push my friend towards the Brand but provided him with advice on the various ( 3 ) boats that he was looking at
NO I did not buy my Lavezzi new
NO I did not buy it from the distributor
NO I am not upset just wanted to share the " experience " with some fellow sailors , by the way , your profile does not say much , what is your sailing vessel?
YES I do question their honesty as the issue of osmosis treatment was only brought up 24 hours after deposit was paid , you obviously have not read the full content of one of my previous thread !
What has happened with my " old boat " is nobody's business but mine and it's new owner .
The purpose of this thread is not to discuss my new choice in vessel and manufacturer
So happy sailing to you to my friend
Fair wind and stay out of trouble