No room for negotiation?

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by CaptainJohn49

Why not consider a new cat? I was at the Seattle boat show over the weekend and looked at new Seawind cats. A lot of boat for the money and very little maintenance during the first years of ownership. Banks and credit unions finance these at home mortgage rates typically 4.5% in today’s market. Keep more of your money in the bank for better investments.

I have no interest in Seawind except the value was there. I personally have a Flicka and like monohulls.

CaptainJohn49

We're still talking @ 560k fitted out. Nice boat, but we want a galley up.

Regards,

[DockDoc]

Well, I feel a lot better after reading the advice/experience replies. I figured I would get a few stinkers in there, Cheers to them too. Nothing like a bad opinion to help you realize the value in actual good advice.
I will keep adding to my boat kitty. I'll find that owners version 2015 or newer Cat that fits my budget, will make both me happy and the seller.
I learned my lesson's with homes. I wanted a really nice place, but it was up for 2.2 million! I waited and watched over 2 years before I made an offer of 890k. They countered with $895. I live there now with my wife and children, beautiful home on 50 acres. We saved 1.3 million by just being reasonable, and waiting for a bit. I met the former owner after we moved in, she was ecstatic we got the place not one bit mad about the deal. She confessed to me the realtor told her "we can list it high and back down". The realtor wanted to make a big commission the owner, a widower, just wanted to sell and downsize.

I think there is some gouging going on with the back story of "The hurricanes wiped out all the catamarans" as a reason to do so.
Very thankful to all of you who replied, I value your advice and time spent giving it. Cheers!

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by LeeV

We're still talking @ 560k fitted out. Nice boat, but we want a galley up.

Regards,

For a Seawind 1260? Our Seawind 1160 Lite is going to total right at $450k, all done, completely rigged out, commissioned, delivery, duty and Texas sales tax paid, air con, Lite Skin sails, asym spin w/top down furler, all electronics except SSB, Yamaha 25's, windlass w/chain, elec halyard winch, custom bow pulpit seats, captains chair, cockpit cushions, Southern Stainless bbq instead of Magma, etc. We did opt for only the one head, as 95% of the time its just the two of us onboard, and like the idea of having that starboard hull forward compartment for sail, bike, etc., storage. And what I've been told is everyone uses the starboard head when sailing anyway, due to proximity to saloon, and the separate port aft shower compartment to prevent having to wipe down the starboard head sink, toilet afterwards.

Also, some people really enjoy shopping for boats. We had a Seawind 1000 for twelve years before this one, and that ownership experience went very well. I didn't want to spend 2-3 years trying to find a used Seawind 1160 - and bidding against my friends that have been waiting almost that long for the same boat and a good deal. Plus we really wanted a Lite with outboards, and not diesels, and there has never been a preowned one for sale in the US to-date. Like DockDoc, we get a lot of pleasure out of using our boat, taking it to Bahamas several months. Although I fully understand depreciation of a new boat, the decision for us was to eat it, build exactly what we wanted, so we could get back to taking trips.

So we've been "sailboatless" for almost a year, but our new Seawind arrives Miami in about a week.

And yes, Lee, I know the 1160 is galley down. MY wife likes that just fine.

[Captain Anthony]

Find another broker

[gulfcoastsailor]

As you know, motivation is everything. Unless someone has a need to sell versus a want to sell, they are hard to budge. Learn the seller's motivation early and follow the good ones.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by geoleo

"Ask who" what its worth???

And even more to the point - "ask who what the seller might take?". The surveyor doesn't know and the broker is unlikely to tell you.

And even more important, an initial offer is basically the way to get a boat to survey. On a $450K used cat, you are likely to have a fairly long list of needed repairs/upgrades identified by the surveyor (or surveyors, as it is often best practice to have someone else survey the engine and mechanicals, and maybe a third person for the rig and sails). The next step is a revised proposal which involves either a lower offer or a series of repairs/upgrades to be done at the owners expense. If the boat is one you really want and the price is reasonable based on comparables you can find - getting the seller to agree to a small reduction up front is probably the least of your worries.

[JasonS]

First, you have no "sob story". Gamma Knife and two neurosurgeries is no small feat! Glad you are able to move on.

Make sure you have a great broker that is working for you - NOT the seller!

The broker should be able to do all the legwork up front AND provide you with comparable listings of boats ACTUAL CLOSING PRICE in the last year or so.

This will help you figure out what the boats are actually selling for and where you fall in the range. You often can find the old listings for a comparison of features/inclusions/exclusions.

Your 5%-10% off sounds completely reasonable and within norms. On our boat, we finally got to our "high" number, the seller got to his "low" number and we were still a bit apart. With no more room to negotiate on either side, both brokers took a bit of their commissions and the deal happened.

I paid a bit more than I wanted. He got a bit less than he wanted. The brokers got a check. And everyone lived happily ever after.

You know better than most of us - keep it in perspective. Live your life. Thankfully you can afford a boat that most can't and sounds like you've also considered the maintenance cost in the equation.

Finding the right boat takes time - but when you find THE ONE calling you - go sail!!

[Dave22q]

Some fortunate folks find bargaining distasteful and can afford to stand fast.
it is not that unusual and you will frequently find the price was set about right to begin with. IMHO if you can afford 97%, you certainly can afford 100% and many sellers are not interested in playing games.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

For a Seawind 1260? Our Seawind 1160 Lite is going to total right at $450k, all done, completely rigged out, commissioned, delivery, duty and Texas sales tax paid, air con, Lite Skin sails, asym spin w/top down furler, all electronics except SSB, Yamaha 25's, windlass w/chain, elec halyard winch, custom bow pulpit seats, captains chair, cockpit cushions, Southern Stainless bbq instead of Magma, etc. We did opt for only the one head, as 95% of the time its just the two of us onboard, and like the idea of having that starboard hull forward compartment for sail, bike, etc., storage. And what I've been told is everyone uses the starboard head when sailing anyway, due to proximity to saloon, and the separate port aft shower compartment to prevent having to wipe down the starboard head sink, toilet afterwards.

Also, some people really enjoy shopping for boats. We had a Seawind 1000 for twelve years before this one, and that ownership experience went very well. I didn't want to spend 2-3 years trying to find a used Seawind 1160 - and bidding against my friends that have been waiting almost that long for the same boat and a good deal. Plus we really wanted a Lite with outboards, and not diesels, and there has never been a preowned one for sale in the US to-date. Like DockDoc, we get a lot of pleasure out of using our boat, taking it to Bahamas several months. Although I fully understand depreciation of a new boat, the decision for us was to eat it, build exactly what we wanted, so we could get back to taking trips.

So we've been "sailboatless" for almost a year, but our new Seawind arrives Miami in about a week.

And yes, Lee, I know the 1160 is galley down. MY wife likes that just fine.

Yep, that’s the price I got from the dealer.
We’ve been on here long enough to digitally know each other, so believe me when I tell you I’ve always loved the Seawind, but she gets seasick going below for anything while underway so the galley down just won’t work. Even she likes the rest of the boat! I’ve annoyed them with emails to give it a go with galley up - I’d be the first in line - but they have no interest. It’s a shame for us.

I’ll enjoy yours vicariously!

[Cliffhanger]

I don't know what the US market like, but in Australia, catamarans are very much in demand and tend to sell relatively quickly. So, the sellers probably just figure they can wait a bit longer and get the full price. Having said that, the sellers are crazy if they haven't allowed some room to negotiate.

[KP44]

You are doing exactly the right thing.
Offer what you are willing to pay. If the boat is well-worth the listed price, go ahead and buy it at that price. If you don't want to pay the listing price, make any offer you want.
Hopefully, the broker is required to present all offers to the seller and let the seller make his decision.

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

For a Seawind 1260? Our Seawind 1160 Lite is going to total right at $450k, all done, completely rigged out, commissioned, delivery, duty and Texas sales tax paid, air con, Lite Skin sails, asym spin w/top down furler, all electronics except SSB, Yamaha 25's, windlass w/chain, elec halyard winch, custom bow pulpit seats, captains chair, cockpit cushions, Southern Stainless bbq instead of Magma, etc. We did opt for only the one head, as 95% of the time its just the two of us onboard, and like the idea of having that starboard hull forward compartment for sail, bike, etc., storage. And what I've been told is everyone uses the starboard head when sailing anyway, due to proximity to saloon, and the separate port aft shower compartment to prevent having to wipe down the starboard head sink, toilet afterwards.



Also, some people really enjoy shopping for boats. We had a Seawind 1000 for twelve years before this one, and that ownership experience went very well. I didn't want to spend 2-3 years trying to find a used Seawind 1160 - and bidding against my friends that have been waiting almost that long for the same boat and a good deal. Plus we really wanted a Lite with outboards, and not diesels, and there has never been a preowned one for sale in the US to-date. Like DockDoc, we get a lot of pleasure out of using our boat, taking it to Bahamas several months. Although I fully understand depreciation of a new boat, the decision for us was to eat it, build exactly what we wanted, so we could get back to taking trips.



So we've been "sailboatless" for almost a year, but our new Seawind arrives Miami in about a week.



And yes, Lee, I know the 1160 is galley down. MY wife likes that just fine.

I would guess you probably sold your Seawind 1000 for close to what she cost new. I would also guess the used 1160’s are selling close to their price when new. I could be wrong and the used Seawind’s are actually selling above their prices when new.

[Orson]

Originally Posted by Tia Bu

I get the impression the catamaran market is pretty tight now after so many charter catamarans were destroyed in hurricanes Irma and Maria. The listing prices for used catamarans seem to have risen significantly, and your experience seems to indicate it's a seller's market. Last year I saw a lot of wrecked catamarans sell for ridiculously high prices.

I have recently heard from a broker it's a buyer's market for older monohulls, though.

Good luck and have fun! Any time I've ever sold a boat I've been delighted to get an offer and thought long and hard before I let them walk away.

Emphasis added.

YES, could the Caribbean hurricanes of 2017 skewed the market activity to reduce the supply of cats and lessened demand for monohulls? Plus the demand side activity: People who take island vacations and sail wanting to go upmarket? Babyboomers, looking at aging more gently aboard?

Does this make sense? Or can someone propose a better theory?

[Paul Howard]

keep track of the boats you are interested in over time. If a boat fails to sell at a higher price, the price will eventually come down. The popular cruising cats are a hot item now. A recent and well equipped cat of the popular brands are demanding a high price. If a boat remains unsold after three months or so, the price will come down.
I tracked boats I was interested in for a year and finally got a good price on a catamaran.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Whoa. Dude. Totally unfair. He’s offering 95%. That’s not unreasonable. You’re being rude.

No.... he’s telling it like it is. Remember that Sailorboy is the guy with a boat and the OP is the guy who’s still trying to figure out how to get a boat.