No room for negotiation?

[Suijin]

Yeah I'm going to suspect that these boats are new to the market. Owners often have an inflated sense of the value of their boat, or they want to test the market and see if someone jumps in with a full asking price offer right out of the gate. In addition, the big boat buying season (in the northern hemisphere) is spring. If the boats are new to the market they are likely not going to even consider lower offers until testing the spring market.

Also, have you run comparables on these boats? They may potentially be priced to sell. If you're making offers on boats that appear to be good deals to you, then I suspect the asking is lower to begin with.

Lastly, three offers is hardly a big enough data set to jump to any conclusions. There are lots of other variables, as mentioned above.

[captstu]

Twice, I’ve had broken not forward offers to prospective sellers. Ran int first seller 3 years later, still trying to sell at well below my offer. Don’t know why he did not get the offer.

Second time I sent a certified letter to seller directly, got the boat 2 weeks later for what seemed like a fair price to everyone but the broker.

[Hesti]

Once you have looked (physically) at say 10 - 20 boats, you will have a better feeling for the market. Once you have that feeling, it will be easier to decide for you which boat(s) to home in on.

Regarding prices - boats can be very emotional topics for the seller. If someone has told his wife for years and years, how much their boat is worth, he may rather keep it then sell below asking price - if he can afford that. Wife may be happy because boat is up for sale, husband may be happy because boat doesn't sell and he can continue to potter about. But - there are boats out there that are priced to sell quickly.

Brokers? Some of them are a bit unethical. We once bid on a boat, bid was rejected (by broker?), broker eventually bought the boat for himself, likely for less than we had offered.

[DockDoc]

Again thanks for all the replies, some very good points in there.

In full disclosure, I have been on 40+ boats. Chartered monohulls and cats, the family is "Cat or nothing" at this point. I have offered on boats that listed between 460-475, offers up to 450k, with the kicker 'no financing needed' I would have thought that would have at least got a sniff or two.

Should I be concerned these offers aren't making it past the brokers? My broker seems very upfront, honest and reliable.
I have also been told by brokers winter and spring are favorable times to buy, not sell in US and Caribbean waters. Not so?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by DockDoc

I have gone 'full retard' and started making offers on Catamarans. I have made 3 different offers on Cats each with a broker listing price of above 450k USD. My offers have all been within 92-95% of list price.

So far ever offer has been met with a "they won't take less than the list price". No counter, just a flat 'nope'.
I have purchased a few things before in my life that cost a pretty penny, and without exception, there was always the list price, and then some room for negotiation, offers, counter offers etc.

Is this just a market-driven phenomenon that is unique to Catamarans, or sailboats in general? Perhaps it's the maternal Portuguese blood in me but I just can't seem to pay the asking price for something without a good haggle!

I have decided to lick my wounds, lay low until mid-February and remount an attack.

Any advice? Am I being too stubborn, foolish, naive?

I know I will get the "buy directly from the owner" advice, but that scenario is full of emotional sellers entanglements I don't want to deal with. Been there done that, no thank you.

So 3 boats you liked but don’t have because you wanted to play “games”. But some sellers don’t want to play and don’t want to be bothered with those that do. This “I need to pay less than asking no matter what” makes you the equilevent of the stereotype used car salesman.

[letsgetsailing3]

Maybe the market is trying to tell you something. The market doesn't lie.


A fair price is what you agree to with the seller, and probably isn't easily captured by a formula. Maybe the boats are priced fairly close to what they'll sell for?


$25K+ is a lot of money.

[LoudMusic]

We had a similar issue making an offer on a 2008 Orana. The guy wanted to recoup his $40k delivery charge. Um, no thank you.

We ended up with what I think is a newer better boat for less money in a better location.

[letsgetsailing3]

One thing is for sure. There's a lot of ego in negotiations.

[Lepke]

If you've sold a boat you've had people make low ball offers. There are many people with a $50 budget and a million dollar dream. They waste your time. When I get a low offer, I don't even reply.

A good broker is going to inform the seller what his vessel will likely sell for and how long it will take at that price. The broker doesn't want to waste his time advertising and showing an over priced boat that will never sell. If the seller is in a hurry the price goes down. If the buyer is in a hurry, he pays a higher price. The law of supply and demand.

[Factor]

Great news. I have a boat that I will accept 20% of asking price, yes thats right 80% off (mind you it was 500% overpriced to begin with).

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by tomfl

It is just silly to say there is a rule of thumb to offer 5-10% less or 65% of the asking price. Every sale is different and some boats are well worth the asking price while others are not worth half the asking price. The trick is to be knowledge enough to determine if a boat is reasonably priced and if the seller is being reasonable about selling it.

I agree with Tom. We sold a Seawind cat last year. Price a little less than $200k, so it wasn't a cheap boat. Had got a full price offer, and another couple the next day offered to beat it. We moved forward with the FPO as they were first to give us what we wanted and it was a cash deal. Extensive survey done and comparison value came back within $5k of sales price.

These "boats sell at x percent of ask" are woefully misguided, IMHO.

[sailjumanji]

And it currently is a strong market for cat sales, which is why we just purchased new! Delivery Feb 6.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So 3 boats you liked but don’t have because you wanted to play “games”. But some sellers don’t want to play and don’t want to be bothered with those that do. This “I need to pay less than asking no matter what” makes you the equilevent of the stereotype used car salesman.

Negotiating a price within around 5% on a boat that you like so that it meets your budget requirements is hardly games. Whether they accept is up to the seller plain and simple.


I have watched boats for a couple of years now and the ones that are realistically priced for what they are sell very quickly and probably for their asking price or very close to it, whilst other boats with an unrealistic price can sit there for years.


Personally as either a Buyer or a Seller (I've sold and purchased a few houses in my time and many cars) I have no issues with negotiating a price.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So 3 boats you liked but don’t have because you wanted to play “games”. But some sellers don’t want to play and don’t want to be bothered with those that do. This “I need to pay less than asking no matter what” makes you the equilevent of the stereotype used car salesman.

Whoa. Dude. Totally unfair. He’s offering 95%. That’s not unreasonable. You’re being rude.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by LF4

Everything that I am reading, and hearing, goes as follows:


- Find the boat
- Ask an expert for a survey
- After the survey ask what the boat is worth
- Once you know what the boat is worth, ask what they think the seller may take
- Once you have that number, offer 65% of it.


All boat owners want boats to sell high, all boat buyers want boats to sell low.

But seriously, if everyone offers low it will drag the price of the average used boat down and make sailing more affordable for the masses. The same will happen in the other direction.

"Ask who" what its worth???