New Lagoon 42 Vs Lucia-40 ?

[rabbi]

Lagoon and FP build hull and furniture..
and then they stuff equipment into these hulls. rigg, engines, hatches, sails, oven, water heater and all that come from the same or similar manufacturers. so the durability is supposed to be similar.

if FPs are not as durable then the hull or furniture must be the weak thing.

I have yet to see a FP hull fall apart. or one of a Lagoon. As said before FPs of certain model years have issues with osmosis so yes there is a weak point. FP had in many cases covered a peek and rebuild in epoxy which if done well in fact makes the boats better than new. Personally I would not buy a FP of these years that had not been treated.

furniture of FP and Lagoon is surprisingly similar, too. they even use the same Alpi plastic wood. Both wear similar, especially the edge bands chipping quickly.
back in 2005 or 2007 when both yards still used real wood instead of Alpi there was a difference in quality and that was not in favor of Lagoon. if you want to see a Lagoon which loses it's varnish in big pieces I can show it to you.

As said before I have owned both a Lagoon and a FP and my next one could be a Lagoon or a FP. exept an untreated FP of year 2005 to 2010. build quality is similar and you get what you pay for.

your charter operators may have had their own agenda. maybe trying to sell the boats leaving their fleet.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by MattyBoy

Their claim was the following

Close Hauled

10-11 knots wind
6.5 knots without code 0
8 knots with code 0

14-16 knots wind
10 knots without code 0
12 knots with code 0

This is the best I could gather from the email. Slight language barrier. I don't have any further information regarding sea state, Load, etc...

seem a bit over the top. code 0 upper limit for L 39 close hauled is 15 kn app wind. 42 cant be all that different. 24 kn apparent in 15 kn wind assuming at 60 true angle way over allowed loads = 156% over.

I would say these are reaching speeds and even here loads are over the limit.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Lagoon and FP build hull and furniture..
and then they stuff equipment into these hulls. rigg, engines, hatches, sails, oven, water heater and all that come from the same or similar manufacturers. so the durability is supposed to be similar.

if FPs are not as durable then the hull or furniture must be the weak thing.

I have yet to see a FP hull fall apart. or one of a Lagoon. As said before FPs of certain model years have issues with osmosis so yes there is a weak point. FP had in many cases covered a peek and rebuild in epoxy which if done well in fact makes the boats better than new. Personally I would not buy a FP of these years that had not been treated.

furniture of FP and Lagoon is surprisingly similar, too. they even use the same Alpi plastic wood. Both wear similar, especially the edge bands chipping quickly.
back in 2005 or 2007 when both yards still used real wood instead of Alpi there was a difference in quality and that was not in favor of Lagoon. if you want to see a Lagoon which loses it's varnish in big pieces I can show it to you.

As said before I have owned both a Lagoon and a FP and my next one could be a Lagoon or a FP. exept an untreated FP of year 2005 to 2010. build quality is similar and you get what you pay for.

your charter operators may have had their own agenda. maybe trying to sell the boats leaving their fleet.

I certainly agree, I also have never seen a FP "fall apart" and I never suggested anything of the sort.

I don't think the charter operators had an agenda, since several were trying very hard to sell me FP from their respective fleets. I actually found it refreshing that they were so upfront about the reasons FPs consistently showed more wear and tear.

I didn't go into it in my earlier emails but yard workers at Nanny Cay and Wickhams Cay told me the same thing. Not one or two workers, several very experienced in catamaran repair voiced their opinions clearly. Again, they said FPs are good boats, the best sailing boats, but boats that do not generally hold up quite as well as Lagoons or R&Cs.


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[rabbi]

OK so what exactly does not hold up so well?

[yeloya]

We had for years/still have quite a bit of FP in our fleet, had one L 450 for a while. But beside the charter operation, we service a lot of boats (mostly cats) and I have seen (and sailed most of them) plenty of cats of various sizes and brand.
Honestly, I didn't see any difference between R/C, Lagoon and FP. The recent models of FP's are much better than earlier models not only because they are free of osmosis but also in terms of finish. As a matter of fact, they had big success in the market place and their prices went up a bit, actually a bit too much. (To me, Lucia 40 is over priced)


But, if someone said that FP's "doesn't hold up well" I can say that we have a 2001 Belize in our fleet which was continiously chartered since then for 15 years. It was sold recently to a decent price in a very good shape. She never needed any specific service beyond our routine maintenance schedule.

So, as rabbi said, we need to know what really didn't hold ??

Cheers


Yeloya

[rajsach]

Originally Posted by yeloya

We had for years/still have quite a bit of FP in our fleet, had one L 450 for a while. But beside the charter operation, we service a lot of boats (mostly cats) and I have seen (and sailed most of them) plenty of cats of various sizes and brand.
Honestly, I didn't see any difference between R/C, Lagoon and FP. The recent models of FP's are much better than earlier models not only because they are free of osmosis but also in terms of finish. As a matter of fact, they had big success in the market place and their prices went up a bit, actually a bit too much. (To me, Lucia 40 is over priced)


But, if someone said that FP's "doesn't hold up well" I can say that we have a 2001 Belize in our fleet which was continiously chartered since then for 15 years. It was sold recently to a decent price in a very good shape. She never needed any specific service beyond our routine maintenance schedule.

So, as rabbi said, we need to know what really didn't hold ??

Cheers


Yeloya

Yeloya
You have a good reputation and the Belize holding up after 15 years of charter is testament of your great management and maintenance. When I was at the recent boat show">Miami boat show the new Helia I saw had broken latches and laminate peeling off on day 2. The Lagoon 42 had bolts falling off the nonfunctional hardtop Bimini slide and a nonfunctional dingy hoist (with promises to fix). Lagoon 42 also had wood laminate in the forward port head which is a completely wet area by design. What were they thinking?! The R&C 44 seemed rock solid to me. The value for the dollar seemed better on the Leopards to me but that's just my opinion



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[ZipTie]

Sounds Like Jim Woodall has a bit of my brothers niece’s cousins little sister thinks that FP’s do not hold up as well.

I have owned a few FP’s and have not seen the same thing as Jim Woodalls brother’s niece’s cousins little sister has seen.

Starting to sound like a TROLL and TRASHER to me.

[carpe vita]

We have a 1994 FP Venezia and would gladly change to the Lucia 40. We keep the Venezia in good condition in my opinion. It sails very well, kick ass on Leopards and Lagoons upwind. It is strong but we have owned her for 9 years and sometimes get New Boat Fever. Boat is nearly payed for and we know every square inch. Why change?

[One Day More]

Thanks carpe vita for your comment. We have sailed on a Venezia 42 for a weeks charter which we thoroughly enjoyed. We are now awaiting delivery of the Lucia 40 in the next couple of weeks. Whilst the Venezia is strong and sails well, interestingly the 2 boats have about the same waterline length. We don't know yet how the Lucia will sail, just trusting to FPs design skills. To me the Venzia design reflects the then current monohull boat design concepts adapted to 2 hulls. By this I mean there is a lot of climbing in, up and down just to get into the cockpit area. By contrast the Lucia 40 makes excellent use of the space available and you can walk up 3 steps and you are on the one "living" level of cockpit and internal saloon. Moving around the boat is a lot simpler and easier as there are 3 levels - cockpit/saloon, helm/deck, and sleeping/in hulls. Have a look at one at a boat show!

[Cotemar]

The FP all on one level living is one of the major design attributes that cruisers love about the newer FP's.

Stepping over or into a cockpit gets old pretty quickly.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

The FP all on one level living is one of the major design attributes that cruisers love about the newer FP's.

Stepping over or into a cockpit gets old pretty quickly.

When the seas are big, the comfort of a surround cockpit provides a great deal of safety.

[ArmyChief]

I've read this whole thread..cause 38-44 Cats are on my short list. Only question I have.

Why do a few say a 38-40' cat is not "liveaboard" material?

Many Lagoon 380's out there with people living on them. Hell for that matter, I've got a folder full of blog links of couples living on a 28+ MONOHULL.

If you can live on a 30 foot monohull, why not a 38-40 foot cat?

[jbpatents]

we just returned from a week in Croatia chartering a Lagoon 39. While I can't say much about its sailing characteristics, I believe it has sufficient space for liveaboard and cruise. As we were docked one evening in Jezera, I was resting on the trampoline when a monster cat came next to us - Lagoon 52. Was clearly beyond the handling capability of the skipper, as he bumped us several time trying to dock. He did the same leaving the next morning. Seems to me unless you take a whole tribe with you, the 52 is just way too big. A good sailing Lagoon 39 (i.e., Lucia 40) would be fine with me. For those who keep insisting that a similarly equipped L42 is less that $100K over a Lucia 40, look again. I have the price list of both on Excel.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by ArmyChief

I've read this whole thread..cause 38-44 Cats are on my short list. Only question I have.

Why do a few say a 38-40' cat is not "liveaboard" material?

Many Lagoon 380's out there with people living on them. Hell for that matter, I've got a folder full of blog links of couples living on a 28+ MONOHULL.

If you can live on a 30 foot monohull, why not a 38-40 foot cat?

i can confirm L 400 is big enough. I am big guy and always lived in big apartments and L400 size fits nicely as our next home.

I do need 3 full hours though to clean bottom using my breath only.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

I do need 3 full hours though to clean bottom using my breath only.

I prefer to wipe mine with a cloth or sponge