New design performance catamarans are heavy - why is that?

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by Happ

Sorry but downgrading winches and lines are not part of a performance cat.

Yup, you can, if you choose, spec smaller everything as loads are much reduced.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Yup, you can, if you choose, spec smaller everything as loads are much reduced.

You can do anything. You could spec a 10’ mast. The fact is all performance cats have larger sail plans. One of the things you will find is a lot of Dyneema in halyards, standing rig, and lifelines.

For instance Dragonfly who make a 40’ trimaran. It has standard height mast. You can order the boat with a taller mast. Their performance version of the same boat has carbon Amas and the taller mast as standard.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

On the YouTubers in my opinion they are changing their boats because they need a new storyline to keep viewership up. They ran out of things to say and so they upgrade. Sad but true.

It's kind of disheartening that so many discussions in this forum devolve into the YT takes.


These people do whatever is required to get suckers to pay them so they can continue living in their land of make believe. An unbiased opinion is not something they will give you!



Want to know what it's like without all the BS of YT? Charter boats, take courses, join a sailing club or walk the docks in your local marina to chat up some sailors. I was going to say go to a boat show but that doesn't show reality either and is also what got me into trouble. lol

[Happ]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

It's kind of disheartening that so many discussions in this forum devolve into the YT takes.


These people do whatever is required to get suckers to pay them so they can continue living in their land of make believe. An unbiased opinion is not something they will give you!



Want to know what it's like without all the BS of YT? Charter boats, take courses, join a sailing club or walk the docks in your local marina to chat up some sailors. I was going to say go to a boat show but that doesn't show reality either and is also what got me into trouble. lol

It all depends on their channel. The Wynn’s and many of the others do bestow on us their opinions. Many of them upgrade because they can I guess. I found very many can actually live off their YT income.

My favorite is Sailing Uma. They live on their 36’ Pearson that they bought for around $5k. They worked on it for a year before leaving a dock. When they did they left with a boat with no lifelines and $20 in their pocket. Here they are today 6 years later in the same boat continually upgrading it. They take you to places most people will never get to see. They have fabulous camera shots and drone footage. They take you onto shore and on adventures. They are not like the channels that you all are talking about.

[Sailingwithgil]

Has anybody seen the sailing performance chart on the new Fountain Pajot Tanna 47 ? I am trying to see how it compare to the other production and performance catamarans for it size? And how does it sail? Not much info on the
new design out there?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Sailingwithgil

Has anybody seen the sailing performance chart on the new Fountain Pajot Tanna 47 ? I am trying to see how it compare to the other production and performance catamarans for it size? And how does it sail? Not much info on the
new design out there?

OK, it is about 2ft longer and 3ft narrower than my cat. It has a working sail area of 1490sqft compared to my 1150sqft and an unloaded displacement of 14.7t compared to 6t (8.5t fully loaded). My cat is not a striped out racer by any stretch.


I can't see based on the figures that the Tanna will be much different performance wise than previous models from the same yard.



In my experience FP's sail relatively well for what they are and are well placed in their intended market, charter boats. They are stylish, well appointed and comfortable but you will be hard pushed to see double digit speeds in anything other than idea conditions and like most keeled cats they are mediocre sailing to windward or in light winds hence the large engines.

[JustMurph]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Regarding comfort, a lighter boat that sails on top of the water is less comfortable at speed in bigger seas. A heavier boat will plow through the water and that smooths things out. We jitterbug, while other boats waltz.

I think there is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle. Something very very light like my mates Oram is definitely very jiggly. Something in the middle like my Mumby, I think is much more comfortable than heavy cats both under sail and at anchor (where they wallow).

Originally Posted by zstine

A low prismatic coefficient (<0.55) is easily driven and optimized for speeds below displacement hull speed....

This fits with my observations of my my Mumby, which has a fairly low prismatic with slender ends compared to the modern performance boats. I do find that I hit a bit of a hump at about 10 knots that takes some power to push through. Once I'm into the low teens you can feel it free up and take off into the mid to high teens. That said, it should be more efficient at lower speeds than the more modern shapes with wide transoms and less rocker. Maybe their big rigs make up for this, but at a cost of additional money weight, complexity and risk.

I totally agree with cat sketcher that it's all about the ability to sail at good speeds in light winds on any point of sail. I really don't care if I lose a few knots of top end speed as a trade off. 19 knots of boat speed in 21 knots of wind on flat water is enough for me.

P.S. I lie. I desperately want to hit 20!

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

P.S. I lie. I desperately want to hit 20!

Honestly - I have yet to meet a sailor who wished his boat was slower.


I concur with your thoughts on wide vs narrow transoms the latter promote surfing but narrower transoms allow you to stay powered up and maintain a more constant speed under the same conditions.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Honestly - I have yet to meet a sailor who wished his boat was slower.


I concur with your thoughts on wide vs narrow transoms the latter promote surfing but narrower transoms allow you to stay powered up and maintain a more constant speed under the same conditions.

The modern trend sure is for fat bums, with the at rest waterline well above the chine (expected on an FP or Lagoon, but also on the Outremers). Hence the bigger sail plans to keep the boat moving in lighter winds where the hydrodynamic lift hasn’t taken effect yet. But this design does perform better in moderate and stronger winds, allowing higher high speeds more easily. We’re happy to be cruising at 8-12 knot averages and don’t really feel the need for more, though of course it is fun in the high teens and low twenties. 28 knots was our top speed and that was running before a big squall with too much sail up - excitement we’re happy to avoid.

[JustMurph]

I really would like to go for a sail on one of these modern performance boats, because on paper a lot of them simply shouldn't be that fast (looking at L/D, SA/D and any of the other performance calculations out there. While I doubt it, I would like to see first hand if there is some secret sauce in the hull shapes and rigs that can make them perform.

For example if you look at the L/D and SA/D ratios for an Outremer 5X, it works out almost identical to my Mumby (in either lightship if loaded cruising form).....and I really would hope that a 5X would be well faster.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by macieknan

Could you recommend any particular cat models/designs to consider with a budget around 150k? Is it possible to find anything in that price range?

If not touching sailing categoty...

3 years ago Your budget could buy 32-ft modern cruiser-racer cat built in Poland. Same boat recently asking Eur 260k.

But sure something is still possible with 150k. Depending of what You may accept for Your cruising plans.

Good luck!

[Spokey Doke]

Not many boats being listed...

All/most of these are well above the OP's budget target (the Windpearl looks like the "budget" choice), but this is my ongoing list of smallish/lightish/fastish new cats:

Independent Catamaran: IC36
Windpearl Palma 30
Comar C-Cat 37
Dazcat 1295
Broadblue 346

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Spokey Doke

Not many boats being listed...

All/most of these are well above the OP's budget target (the Windpearl looks like the "budget" choice), but this is my ongoing list of smallish/lightish/fastish new cats:

Independent Catamaran: IC36
Windpearl Palma 30
Comar C-Cat 37
Dazcat 1295
Broadblue 346

Thread drift...... Lots of 30-35ft cats about but not really related to new designs being heavy.