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LeeV · 11-06-2017, 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

The Nautitech Opens are far from the fastest cat around, quicker than the Lagoon/Pajot/Leopard range almost certainly, but there are many others quicker again. So I wouldn't think a claim of "faster than most other yacjts could be substantiated. The open 40 is slower than Seawind 1000s and 1160s and slower than Montebellos (the forerunner to theBalance Range) and Lightwaves and other similar cruising cats. Not being too critical of them, they are a nice boat, but they ain't as fast as their marketing department and agents in Australia at least suggest.

My conclusions are drawn from real race results and over some significant time.

That's certainly true; I'd love to have a Lightwave Maestro 45, but they're on the other side of the planet from me with a sizable delivery fee and the starting price is @ $897,000 if I recall correctly from my research. I've always liked Jeff's boats (Schionning) and he and Lorraine are lovely people, from whom I bought plans, but life happened and I'm here on the east coast trying to balance Dick Newick's favorite conundrum of cost/perf/comfort. So in the realm of what I might be able to manage, the Nauti is a strong contender, although I was thinking 40' until the Admiral saw the Helia 44 and now the Open 46! 😲

Best regards,

Kikkokilo · 22-06-2017, 10:56

Ciao I'm Riccardo from Italy.

I have to choose my first CAT and I have doubts about these models:

Fountaine Pajot HELIA 44 vs Nautitech 46

Helia 44 evolution (I love the new 3 cabins)
I like: balanced layout, driving station, fly (light), cabins and dinette, bridge with more closed area to relax.

I do not like: feeling of charter boat, small wardrobe, volumes everywhere

Nautitech 46 (4 cabins more balanced)
I like: the cockpit, the feeling of "sailboat", the flat and voluminous lines that "enter" in the spaces, wardrobe

I do not like the bow bridge, the cockpit booth, the couch and the position of the chart table.

In general, I think Helia is more comfortable, but Nautitech is more technical.

I should use it as a day cruiser with friends (70%) and 1 month cruises with my wife (30%) .... rarely have their guest children in the cabin.

I want a boat that does not change after 3 years, a boat to live with serenity, pleasure and love. A small oasis far from the working world.

Help me with some advice?
Thanks and for now I really envy you ... ;-)

PS my english is terrible :-(

iliohale · 22-06-2017, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikkokilo

Ciao I'm Riccardo from Italy.

I have to choose my first CAT and I have doubts about these models:

Fountaine Pajot HELIA 44 vs Nautitech 46

Helia 44 evolution (I love the new 3 cabins)
I like: balanced layout, driving station, fly (light), cabins and dinette, bridge with more closed area to relax.

I do not like: feeling of charter boat, small wardrobe, volumes everywhere

Nautitech 46 (4 cabins more balanced)
I like: the cockpit, the feeling of "sailboat", the flat and voluminous lines that "enter" in the spaces, wardrobe

I do not like the bow bridge, the cockpit booth, the couch and the position of the chart table.

In general, I think Helia is more comfortable, but Nautitech is more technical.

I should use it as a day cruiser with friends (70%) and 1 month cruises with my wife (30%) .... rarely have their guest children in the cabin.

I want a boat that does not change after 3 years, a boat to live with serenity, pleasure and love. A small oasis far from the working world.

Help me with some advice?
Thanks and for now I really envy you ... ;-)

PS my english is terrible :-(

Hi Riccardo,

Unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money, most production boats are a compromise between comfort - performance - price. There are really 4 major manufactures globally, Leopard, Lagoon, Fountain Pajot, and Catana. Of these Catana is the only one that leans more towards the performance end of the compromise triangle. The other 3 lean more towards the comfort and price end of the compromise triangle. And of course, there are many choices other than these 4 manufacturers, Outremer, Nautitech (Bavaria), Seawind, Balance, and the list goes on and on. And all these boats will fit somewhere within the compromise triangle.

So it really comes down to your own personal requirements, what boat checks off the greatest percentage of your wants and needs? So there are a few things I can recommend to help you with your evaluation, and this based on my own search. First, really be honest with your planned usage of the boat. Based on your post, it doesn't sound like you plan to cross oceans or to do long term cruising. Know this and being certain about it will really help you to better define your requirements.

Second, together with those who will be using the boat with you, make a comprehensive list of "must haves" and "nice to haves". Consider this list as you look at boats and look at as many as possible.

Third, narrow your choice to the top 2 or 3 boats that best meet your list.

Finally, charter the boats on your short list. Spend a few days sailing and living on each of these to really understand how well it will fit your needs. The cost of the charter will pay many dividends for you in the end and will help you make the right choice on a boat you will be happy with.

Gary

Sail power sail · 22-06-2017, 13:34

I bought a used schionning 1480 two months ago. Just finished a 2000 nm trip. The boat is amazingly fast and is big enough to be comfortable

Kikkokilo · 22-06-2017, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliohale

Hi Riccardo,

_Based on your post, it doesn't sound like you plan to cross oceans or to do long term cruising. Know this and being certain about it will really help you to better define your requirements.

Third, narrow your choice to the top 2 or 3 boats that best meet your list.

Gary

_I am fortunate to live in the central position of the Mediterranean and to be able to sail next 5/7 years in very fascinating places ... I will not use the CAT in the ocean, maybe it will be a future upgrade...

_I love Helia 44 for layout and comfort, but nautitech inspires me more quality.
I can not understand the value of the two, the price is the same (+/-)

Nautitech seems to me very well for an owner
Helia has everything but looks like a charter boat ...

The nautitech bow cabs are ugly with the upside down bed, but problem is for guests

...

If I had to choose a charter boat, I did not doubt it, but I have difficulties on my charter

Can you tell me 3 big problems (not to buy) and 3 tips (to buy) of the two cat?

iliohale · 23-06-2017, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikkokilo

Can you tell me 3 big problems (not to buy) and 3 tips (to buy) of the two cat?

This is my "OPINION" base on my experience on the two boats, tours of the factories, discussion with current owners, and it is totally biased based on my own preferences:

Sailing performance: edge goes to O46
Overall quality: edge goes to FP44
Factory/Dealer support: edge goes to FP44
Crew Comfort: edge goes to FP44
Engine Access: edge goes to O46
Safety: tie
Price (outfitted): edge goes to FP44
Other personal selection criteria: edge goes to O46

There are a whole series of considerations that go into all of these determinations. If I had to choose between the two boats for myself I would choose the O46. This decision would be based primarily on the sailing performance of the O46, which is high on my evaluation criteria. But the purchase of the O46 would come with the understanding that commissioning and outfitting would be much more involved and painful then it would be with the FP44 and the final price would be >$100K US higher than the FP44.

Gary

henryv · 25-06-2017, 09:23

I don't know if they have made changes to address the issue but when we looked at the Open 46 in Annapolis we found that it lacked adequate numbers and placement of opening hatches for cabin ventilation. Not a big deal if sailing in cooler climates but if sailing in warm climates without AC it would be a problem.

Kikkokilo · 01-07-2017, 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryv

I don't know if they have made changes to address the issue but when we looked at the Open 46 in Annapolis we found that it lacked adequate numbers and placement of opening hatches for cabin ventilation. Not a big deal if sailing in cooler climates but if sailing in warm climates without AC it would be a problem.

I also noticed this problem ... I talked to the seller, he told me that "maybe" there is an optional opening

Kikkokilo · 01-07-2017, 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliohale

This is my "OPINION" base on my experience on the two boats, tours of the factories, discussion with current owners, and it is totally biased based on my own preferences:

Sailing performance: edge goes to O46
Overall quality: edge goes to FP44
Factory/Dealer support: edge goes to FP44
Crew Comfort: edge goes to FP44
Engine Access: edge goes to O46
Safety: tie
Price (outfitted): edge goes to FP44
Other personal selection criteria: edge goes to O46

There are a whole series of considerations that go into all of these determinations. If I had to choose between the two boats for myself I would choose the O46. This decision would be based primarily on the sailing performance of the O46, which is high on my evaluation criteria. But the purchase of the O46 would come with the understanding that commissioning and outfitting would be much more involved and painful then it would be with the FP44 and the final price would be >$100K US higher than the FP44.

Gary

In general I noticed that the N46 tries to give the impression of a sailboat, sacrificing dinette and recreational spaces.
There is no zone to relax over the bridge nets ... nothing on the fly !!!

It looks like a luxury day cruiser boat and not a real cruise boat.

Yesterday I saw Catana BALI 4.5, it's not nice but it has everything it takes to travel for a long time, and it's also very fast ... but the Bimini really horrible

catmancan2 · 01-07-2017, 04:15

Ciao Kikkokilo,

Performance may be relative and the Bali 4.5 may have good points, but "very fast" is not one of them. The Nautitech and Fountaine Pajot will have better performance compared to the Bali.

Depending on your budget you may want to visit ITA CATAMARANS - SAIL INTO A DIFFERENT WIND and study the ITA 14.99 built in Mondolfo.

Saluti,
Don

catmancan2 · 01-07-2017, 04:45

Have a look at the ITA 14.99 built in Mondolfo ITA CATAMARANS - SAIL INTO A DIFFERENT WIND. Performance is relative I guess but the Bali is not faster than the Nautitech 460.

Kikkokilo · 01-07-2017, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by catmancan2

Have a look at the ITA 14.99 built in Mondolfo ITA CATAMARANS - SAIL INTO A DIFFERENT WIND. Performance is relative I guess but the Bali is not faster than the Nautitech 460.

My "very fast" refers to the category we talk about ... the fast catamarans are others.

My heart tells me to choose the Nautitech Open 46
I love it, I only have doubts about the double helm or the fly .... I'm afraid the double helmets are for the ocean and not for the Mediterranean sea where there are thousands of small boats and visibility is important under the coast.

I like the Bimini version more like Helia ... so my head says the FIA Helia 44 ... but it's an "old" catamaran concept, I think more in the newer, more fun and with big sail sensations.

Bali looks like a clever project but also so cold and without "flavor" ... in my opinion, creating 5/6 new boats in 3 years is too presumptuous. New ideas must be tested.

Now I understand why everyone chooses Lagoon, offers everything and has more experience of space and things they need, it's not a missile, it's not a sailboat, it's not fashion, but it satisfies a lot.

The new Lagoon 50 I think it's very nice cat ...