Nautitech Open 46

[Wyered1]

Originally Posted by iliohale

The only Open 46 that I could find for charter is in Croatia. We have it booked the first week in May for 7 days. I plan to take video and will provide comments on performance that we see from that week.

That will be extremely useful. Your videos on YouTube have been the most helpful from the Nautitech 46 Open and Outremer 4X/45. I haven't been able to see these in person, but true sailing ability is the hard thing to get honest information on. People love to take video on reaches in high wind. But what a buyer wants to see is at what level are you relegate to the motor to get somewhere.

I have a feeling we will get the real world information we need about the Outremer 45 when La Vagabonde gets there's in a few days and starts recording.

I got word there is one (N46 Open) available in Mallorca available in May. I'm considering it, but some friends that I was expecting to join us may not be interested if not in the Caribbean. Still, it's a better destination... wife is on board so that's the most important part.

On another note, I saw a foreign video of one of the N46 with the chart table and the fridges where the daybed is. I thought I'd prefer it, but definitely would opt to leave the fridges under the interior controls and keep the seating to starboard as was in your video. It lost the "open" aspect.

[Overlord]

Where are they built ?

[iliohale]

Originally Posted by Wyered1

That will be extremely useful. Your videos on YouTube have been the most helpful from the Nautitech 46 Open and Outremer 4X/45. I haven't been able to see these in person, but true sailing ability is the hard thing to get honest information on. People love to take video on reaches in high wind. But what a buyer wants to see is at what level are you relegate to the motor to get somewhere.

I have a feeling we will get the real world information we need about the Outremer 45 when La Vagabonde gets there's in a few days and starts recording.

I got word there is one (N46 Open) available in Mallorca available in May. I'm considering it, but some friends that I was expecting to join us may not be interested if not in the Caribbean. Still, it's a better destination... wife is on board so that's the most important part.

On another note, I saw a foreign video of one of the N46 with the chart table and the fridges where the daybed is. I thought I'd prefer it, but definitely would opt to leave the fridges under the interior controls and keep the seating to starboard as was in your video. It lost the "open" aspect.

If we go forward with an order we plan to take the cabinet with fridges in place of the sofa starboard aft in the main cabin. I want a full nav station with a comfortable seat. In addition, we plan to replace the desk in the owners cabin with a large deep freezer. I have seen the main cabin with both setups and I liked having the cabinet in lieu of the sofa. Plus you get the pop up TV which is a great location for it.

I promise to provide a full report on the sailing performance of the boat once we get back from our charter.

[Wyered1]

Originally Posted by iliohale

If we go forward with an order we plan to take the cabinet with fridges in place of the sofa starboard aft in the main cabin. I want a full nav station with a comfortable seat. In addition, we plan to replace the desk in the owners cabin with a large deep freezer. I have seen the main cabin with both setups and I liked having the cabinet in lieu of the sofa. Plus you get the pop up TV which is a great location for it.

I promise to provide a full report on the sailing performance of the boat once we get back from our charter.

I like the idea of swapping the desk with a deep freeze in the owner's cabin. That will certainly give you a lot of cold storage. 2 in the cabin, 1 or 2 in the cockpit, and also a deep freezer in the owner's cabin. If you make the swap, I agree that a full nav station is in order. I also have been trying to figure out a way to get a TV in that spot for night time movies.

I'm not sure which way I would go. If I decide to buy one of these... I'll have to ponder that and see it in person. Do you have any updated information on orders? How far out are they now versus production rate? I know this time last year they had 20 orders which seems like a lot, and there doesn't seem to be very many in charters yet, at least not ones that aren't the Flybridge version I guess.

[iliohale]

The last I checked they were about 14 months back ordered. They received a bunch of charter orders on the Fly version. I know an owner who is taking delivery of his Open version in the next few weeks and I believe his hull number is in the mid 20's. So I would guess that they are sold through hull 40 to 50 at least. I also know that they are looking to expand production capacity at the yard. I was there in September and saw hull #17 go out the door.

[JohnyV]

Originally Posted by iliohale

The last I checked they were about 14 months back ordered. They received a bunch of charter orders on the Fly version. I know an owner who is taking delivery of his Open version in the next few weeks and I believe his hull number is in the mid 20's. So I would guess that they are sold through hull 40 to 50 at least. I also know that they are looking to expand production capacity at the yard. I was there in September and saw hull #17 go out the door.

My Open 46 is launching on the 12th of April and is hull #24 if that helps.

[meatservo]

Gentlemen,

What is the general consensus on Nautitech build quality and bridgedeck clearance compared to Leopard, FP, etc.

Thanks...



meatservo

[meatservo]

bump... Anybody!



meatservo

[LeeV]

Just for additional research information, this is part of a package I received , which also included Open 40 info.

46FLY Standard specifications.pdf

Twin 46 Private.pdf

NT Comparisons Feb 2017.pdf

[Wyered1]

Originally Posted by iliohale

The last I checked they were about 14 months back ordered. They received a bunch of charter orders on the Fly version. I know an owner who is taking delivery of his Open version in the next few weeks and I believe his hull number is in the mid 20's. So I would guess that they are sold through hull 40 to 50 at least. I also know that they are looking to expand production capacity at the yard. I was there in September and saw hull #17 go out the door.

Iliohale,

I remember you saying you were chartering in early May. Have you departed or finished? Really looking forward to some real analysis from a potential buyer. Performance, boat build quality, etc. This still seems like the boat I'm leaning toward.

Also, I'd like to know how you felt about your time in Croatia.

[Wyered1]

Originally Posted by LeeV

Just for additional research information, this is part of a package I received , which also included Open 40 info.

Attachment 145500

Attachment 145501

Attachment 145502

Thanks for this info.

[iliohale]

Open 46 Notes:

Just finished a 7 day charter on an Open 46 out of Pula Croatia. The boat was a 4 cabin version and there were 8 of us (4 couples) plus a skipper. We spent a lot of time sailing the boat in wind conditions from 0 to 25+ kts TWS and in sea states that were flat to confused 1 1/2M swell heights. During this time I carefully evaluated the boat and made notes. I looked at every inch of the boat that I could access and I asked our entire group (most of who are experienced sailors) for their feedback.

Before I share my notes I want to provide some caveats. First, I am not an experienced multihull sailor but I am a very experienced mono hull sailor and boat owner. Second, we went into the charter thinking that the Nautitech was a boat that we wanted to buy so we were carefully evaluating it with that lens.

One last word, the boat was a fantastic platform for the 7 days of cruising we did in Croatia. We had 9 people on board and the boat just functioned and worked for us. We had a great time. So here are my raw notes on the boat, I will be happy to discuss any specific questions anyone has and please challenge me on any of my statements.

Likes:
1. Helm locations - overall the locations work well. Visibility is not that big of an issue however you must have engine controls at both helm stations. Also main sheet and car controls need to be located at both stations. Protection from the elements needs to be addressed but biminis can be fitted with 3 sided shade or wind/rain protection. Really liked the ability to be part of the conversation in the cockpit and main cabin. Very simple to get to the helm station (no stairs) and to walk from one helm station to the other. Having auto pilot control remotely would be useful.
2. Sail handling and running rigging worked well, however, some attention needs to be placed on winch sizing and location of the power controls. For example, while raising the main sail it was difficult to work the winch button and watch the sail. Really liked the self-tacking working jib. It made it very easy to short tack and the boat was very responsive on these tacks in 12 knots AWS.
3. Cockpit overall with sun shades and enclosures. This was fantastic. It was very easy to put the enclosure down when the weather turned cold or it started to rain. The cockpit was very comfortable and we ate most of our meals here. Under sail everyone was able to find a comfortable place to relax and enjoy. One issue that needs to be addressed is the visibility of the side curtain windows. When down it made it difficult to look through them from the helm stations.
4. Foredeck is very comfortable to work on and to relax. The pads and cushions worked well but we needed to continually remove them when sailing and then set them up when conditions allowed.
5. Overall looks of the boat, I just really like the way the boat looks without the raised helm station and with the lower boom.
6. Handling under power, this is likely not so specific to the Open 46 but in general I found the ability to control the boat under power was great. Very easy when docking. One issue on the Open 46 is the engine noise level in the aft cabins is not good. The engine insulation is not good and the engine compartments extend under the berths.
7. Scoops and steps worked well and provided easy access when med moored or side tied. Easy steps to get up and down.
8. Engine rooms, great access and wonderful access to service the engines. One engine at 2200 RPM = 7.2 knots in clam conditions, two engines at 2000 RPM = 8.5 knots in the same conditions.
9. Sail performance, despite this being a charter boat with only white sails, we were able to get good performance out of the boat. Spent a lot of time dialing in the trim close hauled, final result was a constant 6.5 to 7.2 kts at 40-45 AWA in 12 kt AWS. This was the working self-tacking jib and full main (not a square top).
10. Main bilges and access to systems and wiring seemed very good with good room below the soles in the hulls and a nice deep bilge in each hull.
11. Access to the boom and mainsail. Easy up to the cabin top at the front of the cabin, low boom made it easy to flake the main and close the stack pack.
12. Deck access, good hand holds, nice wide decks, and so on.

Dislikes
1. Undersized winches.
2. Interior lighting was really poor on many levels. Either too bright or not bright enough. There were many dark areas such as over the galley counters and in the heads.
3. Trim board over forward galley counter has to go, head knocker and makes no sense.
4. Cheap door hardware has to be replaced.
5. Bow cleat locations and lack of protection for line chafe against the fiberglass.
6. Amount of opening hatches in the main cabin, the charter boat only had the two forward openings. I understand that newer boats now have some opening hatches in the overhead.
7. Main cabin doors were not running smoothly and in a seaway with rolling can be dangerous. These are heavy doors and going through them with the boat moving was a challenge. It seemed that little attention was paid by the factory to make sure that these doors opened smoothly. The main door was hitting against the aft port window sill.
8. Main halyard line and mainsail cars, overall main raising and lowering were a disaster with someone required to be on the cabin top to complete either. Totally not acceptable.
9. Fresh water and sump system noise and general lack of water pressure plus the length of time required to get hot water to the hot water outlets. Need a shower in the port hull?, be prepared to waste gallons of water waiting for it to get warm and then be prepared for a very small trickle of water coming out of the shower head.
10. Poor installation of the heating system in the cabins and heads. Basically no heat in the heads and a very confusing heating system in the cabins where the bilges were hot but the cabin was cold.
11. Galley counter top was horrible with raised wood edges that will get destroyed from use, horrible caulking lines, and poor counter top material that stains and will easily wear.
12. Guest head and shower set up is not good, for example the mirrors are impossible to use. In general just very small space, could have been better thought out in design.
13. Factory cook top and oven where really cheap with no temperature control in the oven, too small, no pan clamps, and just didn’t work well.
14. AC electrical system was confusing in terms of controls.
15. Dinette table was folding and on a high/low pedestal but it didn’t work from a size stand point in either folded or open. Not very well thought out.
16. Engine and mechanical noise levels in aft cabins was not acceptable.
17. Steering system, too much play, too heavy, wheels are clumsy.
18. Back cushions on interior settees are horrible and not comfortable.
19. Aft seat in cockpit is narrow with no comfortable back rest
20. Access to escape hatches is horrible and the steps covering them creak and work.
21. Exterior caulking is poorly done and dirty. This will be a maintenance nightmare.
22. Bow anchor set up only allows for one anchor, windless is undersized in my opinion, the roller makes it difficult to pull up and lower the bridle, and it will not likely fit anchors like a Rocna or Mantus
23. Overall fit and finish of the boat was not great with gaps in the furniture joints, poor caulking, lack of labels, and so on.
24. Dark wood on the sole looked cheap and showed every spec of dirt.

Must have Changes
1. Key lighting changes are to add indirect lighting around headliner and over the counter. Could use some softer head liner lights and main factory lights on a dimmer. All new head lights are required.
2. Change the engine controls to electric and have at both helm locations
3. Dinghy height on the davits needs to be addressed with better lift and bridle set up.
4. Mainsail halyard, cars, reefing lines, and lazy jacks have to be addressed. Likely ball bearing cars are needed, better line material, easy way to get the lazy jacks out of the way when raising the sail, and a complete rethink of the reefing lines.
5. All power winches and much larger main halyard winch are needed.
6. Fresh water system improvements needed to provide hot water faster to outlets, reduce pump noise with better and lager pumps, improve water pressure in the Port hull, accumulator tank, and so on.
7. Cook top and oven have to be replaced with better appliances.
8. Galley head clearance, remove the head liner trim board or modify it.
9. Install new counter material over the top of the existing in the galley.
10. Mirror in guest head has to be better positioned.
11. Both DC and AC electrical systems need to be understood and improved with better monitoring, controls, and power generation. One interesting aspect of the charter boat was the smaller genset of 3.5 KW. This could work provided that boat was set up with enough solar generation, DC water maker, enough battery storage (Lithium of 1200 AH capacity), DC heating, enough inverter capacity to run AC equipment like washer, microwave, and so on.
12. Dinette table must be changed. Likely take the factory standard and do this after market.
13. Mattresses have to be improved, buy new after market
14. Location of the main halyard winch switch, needs to be outboard of the winch to make it easy to look at the main when raising it.
15. Hand hold on cabin top steps, this should be on the forward edge of the mast.
16. Netting needs to be much firmer
17. Helm protection needs to be improved, the factory bimini was horrible.
18. Mainsail outhaul lead aft, charter boat had no ability to adjust the outhaul.
19. Double spin halyards with winch at the mast, charter boat had a single spin halyard lead aft.
20. Electric fresh water flush heads to eliminate head order (not specific to the Open 46.
21. Bow anchor set up needs to be change to support a Rocna or Mantus
22. New door hardware
23. Improve insulation in the engine rooms

Key Concerns
1. The boat seemed to be susceptible to wave slapping both under power and sail with various sea states and swell from different directions. It seemed that anything other than flat water resulted in wave slapping. Watching this closely I don't believe it was the result of water slapping the bridge deck for the most part although this also occurred it was not very often. We did have 1 to 1 1/2 M swells which at times also had a cross swell. But the slapping also occurred in calmer sea states. Much of this slapping was against the inside side hulls towards the aft sections. This resulted in the dinghy being splashed which redirected some spray forward into the aft cockpit. The dinghy was not well set up in the davits and could have been higher. But the wave slapping was uncomfortable and caused the boat to shutter. My concern is that this is not common to all cats and could have something to do with the large horizontal selves on the Open 46.
2. Coming off of larger swells or taking wind/wave loads resulted in significant furniture creaking below. This was apparent in the larger bulkheads running port/starboard. I felt that the boat was working with the loads in the way she shuttered when coming off a wave or being broadsided by one. No idea if this is common in all catamarans. Being a mono hull sailor I know that some working occurs as well but the Open 46 just seemed to be working more than I am used to experiencing.
3. Overall quality seemed lacking. Some things seemed well done and other things just felt cheap. This was really reflected in things like the plumbing system and overall noise levels in the boat. Plus when you opened up access panels it is clear that Nautitech does not go out of their way to clean things up and provide a better finished product.
4. Main sail handling is a disaster. A lot of attention will need to be paid to this aspect. Larger two speed halyard winch, better main halyard material, ball bearing cars, a complete redo of the reefing set up, a complete redo of the lazy jack set up, port and starboard car and sheet controls, a better main sheet car set up, and so on.
5. Main ground tackle set up needs to be significantly beefed up. New roller set up to handle a Rocha or Mantus, larger windless, set up for second bow anchor, and so on.

[Wyered1]

Originally Posted by iliohale

Open 46 Notes:

So here are my raw notes on the boat, I will be happy to discuss any specific questions anyone has and please challenge me on any of my statements.

Wow. Thanks so much for this post.

Seems like some of these problems can be fixed, but some seem like significant issues that aren't easily addressed. Quite a list and a lot of the issues seem like annoying quality issues Nautitech should have got right coming from the Open 40.

You mentioned you had to remove the forward lounging mats under sail. Was there no way these could be fixed in place under sail in decent conditions?

Concerning hull design wise is the hull slapping you mentioned. I'm not clear on what you meant, but I also don't have multihull experience. How was the ride otherwise? Much pitch polling?

All in all, have you made any decisions to continue pursue this model further or look elsewhere? Might be a summary indicator as there is no perfect boat.

I have a peev with unnecessary creaking, and it sounds like this boat was bad about it. To me, it seems like a sign of bad build quality all the way to the core.

Thanks again for your input.

[iliohale]

Originally Posted by Wyered1

Wow. Thanks so much for this post.

Seems like some of these problems can be fixed, but some seem like significant issues that aren't easily addressed. Quite a list and a lot of the issues seem like annoying quality issues Nautitech should have got right coming from the Open 40.

You mentioned you had to remove the forward lounging mats under sail. Was there no way these could be fixed in place under sail in decent conditions? [Response] - Yes, the bottom cushions had straps that feed through plastic brackets screwed into the deck. The back cushions had Velcro that we didn't trust to hold them in stronger winds.

Concerning hull design wise is the hull slapping you mentioned. I'm not clear on what you meant, but I also don't have multihull experience. How was the ride otherwise? Much pitch polling? [Response] - waves slapping the hulls and bridge deck. Larger waves would slap the bridge deck forward and the entire boat would shutter. This was pretty rare, but on the other hand, there would be wave slapping the inside hulls towards the aft ends fairly often. I had not experienced that on other multihulls I have sailed on and I am concerned that this is the result of having the large horizontal services exposed to bow waves and swells. But overall the motion of the boat was good.

All in all, have you made any decisions to continue pursue this model further or look elsewhere? Might be a summary indicator as there is no perfect boat. [Response] - I know that there is no perfect boat, everything about a boat is a compromise unless you have unlimited money to build a custom boat. For us, the combination of our experience and concerns from this charter along with other owner feedback I have received on the Open 46 eliminates it from our consideration. We are now looking at other boats on our short list.

I have a peev with unnecessary creaking, and it sounds like this boat was bad about it. To me, it seems like a sign of bad build quality all the way to the core. [Response] - it is concerning to hear creaking in the bulkheads. But I must say that I have heard this in the furniture of Lagoons, FP's, and Leopards as well but not in the large bulkheads.

Thanks again for your input.

You mentioned you had to remove the forward lounging mats under sail. Was there no way these could be fixed in place under sail in decent conditions? [Response] - Yes, the bottom cushions had straps that feed through plastic brackets screwed into the deck. The back cushions had Velcro that we didn't trust to hold them in stronger winds.

Concerning hull design wise is the hull slapping you mentioned. I'm not clear on what you meant, but I also don't have multihull experience. How was the ride otherwise? Much pitch polling? [Response] - waves slapping the hulls and bridge deck. Larger waves would slap the bridge deck forward and the entire boat would shutter. This was pretty rare, but on the other hand, there would be wave slapping the inside hulls towards the aft ends fairly often. I had not experienced that on other multihulls I have sailed on and I am concerned that this is the result of having the large horizontal services exposed to bow waves and swells. But overall the motion of the boat was good.

All in all, have you made any decisions to continue pursue this model further or look elsewhere? Might be a summary indicator as there is no perfect boat. [Response] - I know that there is no perfect boat, everything about a boat is a compromise unless you have unlimited money to build a custom boat. For us, the combination of our experience and concerns from this charter along with other owner feedback I have received on the Open 46 eliminates it from our consideration. We are now looking at other boats on our short list.

I have a peev with unnecessary creaking, and it sounds like this boat was bad about it. To me, it seems like a sign of bad build quality all the way to the core. [Response] - it is concerning to hear creaking in the bulkheads. But I must say that I have heard this in the furniture of Lagoons, FP's, and Leopards as well but not in the large bulkheads.

[AZ Parothead]

Thanks for the thorough review. This boat was on our list for Annapolis and it's now moved down!