Mini scuba tanks instead of escape hatches?

[bradfordharley]

Many of the posts above are good and I'll add my personal experience. A flipped boat will be full of debris, and has a 50% chance of happening at night where it's dark and will be an extremely high stress environment. I am a certified cave diver and have some experience in confined space and zero visibility. First, I think any scuba tank is an extremely dangerous proposition and a distraction in the time of emergency. You should be spending your time exiting, not looking for scuba equipment. Second, the small 'spare air' type tanks just don't hold enough air if something goes wrong, and are the same distraction as a regular scuba tank. If I were you, I would add an escape hatch. If not, practice your swimming. I would always recommend you get certified and having a tank on deck that you could use after escape to re-enter with calm mind isn't a terribilie idea.
I also wanted to clarify the previous poster who mentioned surface supplied air (assuming it's a hookah like device and not a snorkle) frees you from worrying about an air embolism. That's not true. Breathing any air at depth is inherently pressurized greater than surface pressure and can kill you. Have fun with your new cat!!!

[sailingchiro]

Someone had glassed my escape hatches before my ownership and couldn’t be more happy. Frankly I would bet that more catamarans have been sunk as a result of hatch failure than have capsized. My opinion. An inverted catamaran holds air pretty well and exiting the main companion way seems more reasonable to me. I wouldn’t consider it but a sawzall with a fresh battery can make a suitable hole in matter of minutes. Why have a vulnerable spot in the hull near the water line? I can’t keep my kids from opening the portholes while underway.. Lord knows how I would keep an escape closed. We do have scuba in each hull. Just in case.

[schoonerdog]

I think small scuba tanks are great items to carry (reference Mantus anchors for their 15 minute side tanks) but you also need to be scuba certified, and you will still need escape hatches. Regarding escape hatch be aware that location is important. When you are inverted, and open the hatch, you will be puncturing the air bubble that keeps the boat floating (at least floating relatively high). As the air goes out of the hatch, the boat will sink until that hatch goes under water. That's why underway they recommend keeping those hatches closed.

[taxwizz]

I am PADI certified SCUBA diver, and think that having a Spare Air tank aboard is a good idea. They let you inspect the bottom, untangle props, and retrieve items in shallow depths. A Spare Air tank is good for around 20 breaths, in shallow water. But might not be as good in a panic situation. They are the size of 2 stacked beer cans. You can see one strapped to my chest on the attached photo.
However, if you are considering this option, DEFINITELY get SCUBA training so that you know what the device does, and how to use it. You don't want your first experience to be your last.

[jim King]

Cruising for the last ten years off my Leopard 444 I often rent scuba gear and dive along the way. Having seen ads for these mini (.5 liter) tanks, I was curious enough to spend $120 on one. After reading several reviews I choose not to include the pump as it took about a half hour and a lot of energy to fill a tank. I just use a rented full size dive tank to refill my mini tank. At first use I was less than pleased with the results of the mini tank. Yes, it does give you about 8 minutes of air at less than 10 feet of depth, but the small regulator it comes with is not of the quality you experience with a full size regulator. It is difficult to draw air and you need to keep a bite on the mouth piece to keep it with you. Yes, at $120 they are cheap enough, but before you rely on it in an emergency I would go through at least ten trial tests with it to become accustom to its feel and usefulness. I wouldn't recommend it for any novice diver and for a non Padi licensed diver it could be outright dangerous.

[nortonscove]

This seems to be adding an extra layer of complexity to a simple solution that has worked for years. Whenever I see this type of approach I come at it like a commercial operator and consider that it would require training for those onboard. It's a nightmare to add complexity when you have someone coming along for a short time and you have to create as safe an environment as feasible. Any non-swimmers I feel would not be as open to this approach as climbing out of a hatch.

More than likely there's no issue but in a worst case scenario this is the least easy solution.

[Cpt Mark]

My cat doesn't have any escape hatches either. And I'm not putting any in.

1st off. Finding a small bottle in the dark, amid the mess that your boat will be and the using it successfully the odds are pretty small IMHO. Iv'e dove on sunken boats to float them back up. It's a mess/nightmare inside.

2nd. My cat has flotation in all 4 corners so it cannot sink. There is no lead keel. If it fills up with water I won't be happy but not a big deal.

3rd. In your scenario the boat is upside down which means you most likely made a series of huge mistakes to get in that position. Ok, it's upside down, has a ton of water in it, stuff everywhere. The air rises. It will now be on the floor which will be the ceiling. You should have plenty of air to easily walk or swim out.

Earlier cats not sailed well could flip or pitchpole pretty easy. Modern cats, not racing, this is a very rare occurrence. I'm not concerned.

Breathing underwater. Retired NAUI,PADI,CMAS Scuba instructor. While getting certified is something everyone should do, cleaning your hull at a depth of 4 feet really shouldn't be cause for concern unless you get bad air or have an underlying medical condition. Cleaning your hull is not always all that easy and those mini tanks will not be all that helpful. More trouble than they are worth.

[Sailor647]

A mini scuba tank isn't going to do a damn bit of good in you have a fire onboard.

An whoever said "my cat won't sink" is flat wrong. We've personally seen two cats underwater in the last four years. One hit a reef, the other apparently flipped due to having a chute up in high wind. Both came apart and sank.

[rrn]

Both would be nice just the act of going through a hatch while upside down u would want air a nail out bottle will only supply one or three breaths if you are intimately aware of how to use them plus added adrenalin of circumstances
A possible solution would be a permanent large dive tank with air lines (similar to hookah system)
It would provide approx 40 minute of air for one person it would have to have all airtight fittings and on off valves

The tank could be mounted anywhere and mostly on off valves at point of use

I am a former freelance commercial dive
This stuff is in no Manuel's
And talking to dive shops those guys are taught how to sell their products
Good luck

[roland stockham]

From some very limited experience of cave diving plus using air in rescue situations above water I can tell you this is not a good idea. Even putting aside that for any diving you need adequate training diving in darkness with no air surface above you and in an area prone to snags is like driving round a race track the wrong way during a race, you wont even see whats going to kill you until you are dead.

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by Sailor647

A mini scuba tank isn't going to do a damn bit of good in you have a fire onboard.

Actually, I would think that it would allow you to breathe in the smoke.

[Discovery 15797]

As an PADI Emeritus Master Scuba Diver Trainer #15797, and USAF combat diver I agree with Cpt. Mark and others.

While very unlikely, air embolisms can occur in water as shallow as 15 feet. Most embolisms occur from divers holding their breath after "running out" of air at depth, and/or panic and surfacing from depths.

Shallow water blackout comes from holding your breath underwater and a buildup of carbon-dioxide and reduced levels of oxygen to the brain (hypoxia) and occurs more frequently among free divers.

As taxizz said, the Spare Air solution can provide lasts about 1 - 2 minutes of air assuming you are breathing at a normal respiration rate. If your boat is upside down...I'm going to bet you will not be breathing at a normal respiration rate.

As pointed out by several others here...finding the things in an inverted cabin would be a chore. Egressing with scuba would be a significant feat; especially if you are not in a calm and controlled state of mind. There is a reason why wreck diving and cave diving are distinct rigorous specialties that are not to be taken lightly.

Anything larger then a Spare Air means you need to strap it on, or carry it. Again, something highly unlikely in a panic situation unless you train repeatedly. Also, that equipment would have to be stored assembled and ready for use.

A skill taught in scuba class is learning to breath underwater though the regulator without a mask on. Many times students would hold their breath during the mask removal and replacement exercise because they would aspirate water through their nose. This had to be "trained out" of them. So, unless you are trained and unless you calm and wearing a mask you are likely to inhale water through your nose even with a regulator in your mouth which would lead to further panic.

So, I will beat the drum with others on this thread and state that relying on Spare Air as an escape mechanism from an overturned cat is a very bad idea.

Relying on scuba (even small units) that is constantly in a readiness in a panic situation is a bad idea.

If you're going to have scuba equipment aboard, you should be trained by qualified instructor with an internationally recognized certification agency.

So, I would recommend you think through the escape hatch thing, or don't flip your cat.

[P3sailor]

If not a certified scuba diver I wouldn't recommend the compact O2 bottle. Escape hatches aren't just there to enable escape from a swamped or overturned vessel. You've got to think about other emergencies that may arise, particularly fire! If you have no alternative escape route and a fire is preventing you from safely evacuating your vessel, you're screwed. Just saying.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Sailor647

A mini scuba tank isn't going to do a damn bit of good in you have a fire onboard.

An whoever said "my cat won't sink" is flat wrong. We've personally seen two cats underwater in the last four years. One hit a reef, the other apparently flipped due to having a chute up in high wind. Both came apart and sank.

You may have seen 2 cats sunken. Not all cats or monos are built the same way. If you'd read the full post you'd have notices that mine is built with positive flotation in all 4 corners so that it can't sink. Burn to the water line but still floating not that it would do you any good.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by P3sailor

If not a certified scuba diver I wouldn't recommend the compact O2 bottle. Escape hatches aren't just there to enable escape from a swamped or overturned vessel. You've got to think about other emergencies that may arise, particularly fire! If you have no alternative escape route and a fire is preventing you from safely evacuating your vessel, you're screwed. Just saying.

a fired on any plastic boat and you're screwed. An escape hatch like what is being discussed is on the BOTTOM of the hulls to allow you a way out if the boat were flipped upside down. If that were the case and you had a fire... well, wrong place at the wrong time.