Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

[StuM]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

Yeah, tell me about it. When I moved back here (having spent the previous 4 years sailing from Boston), TMR didn't recognise a RYA Yachtmaster Offshore as a qualification

They do now, they recognoise 13 RYA Certs, right down to Competent Crew(Sail only)
https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/~/media/m...ation_list.pdf

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

It's been implied above but it's good to be explicit - generally when sailing a recreational boat around the world you are sailing under the registration and licensing rules of the country that the boat is registered in, not the licensing and registration rules of the country you are visiting.

So if my boat is flagged in the USA then I must meet their skipper licensing requirements (none), if my boat is flagged in Spain then I must meet their extensive licensing requirements with different levels of licence for different distances offshore. Countries you sail in generally respect the rules of the flag country with respect to registration and licences while you are navigating a foreign flagged vessel in their waters. This also applies to boat rules like required safety equipment - though some countries like NZ have occasionally added additional local requirements on foreign boats.

I would be cautious about assuming this is true for your tender and then follow the local rules, not your flag country's for things like lifejackets etc.

Having said all that, getting some broadly recognised qualifications like those from RYA is very valuable, even if just for what you learn as part of the process.

This is actually factually incorrect.

The laws of the territorial waters you sail in trump all other “ laws “that may have applied in international waters. ( ie your flag state) this assumes you are not on innocent passage which most leisure cruises are not.

Hence Greece and Croatia have specific competency requirements that apply to all boats irrespective of flag, France has safety equipment rules that apply , Ireland has life jacket rules that apply irrespective of flag rules etc.

Comity is normally applied outside of this, ie a nation you are visiting will not criminalise a situation that is legal in the flag state but maybe illegal in the host nation but as I pointed out comity is voluntary and is regularly overridden by local laws. Your flag does not provide your boat with diplomatic immunity.

It’s no different if you drive an American car in Spain etc.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by StuM

Except for places like Queensland where I see you currently are


https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/boating/recreational
Overseas marine licences for visitors

When you visit Queensland from another country, you may be able to use your overseas marine licence if it is a current recognised overseas licence (PDF, 130KB).
If your recognised overseas marine licence is not in English, you will need a translation from an accredited National Accreditation Authority for Translators and Interpreters translator and must keep this with your licence.
If your overseas marine licence is not recognised, you will need to contact an approved BoatSafe training provider to assess recognition of prior learning and then apply for your marine licence.

It's funny that they have the "Canadian Pleasure Craft Operator Card" is on the list; that's an online only test that a 12 year old could pass which is good for your lifetime.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

There are also likely to be local national/state requirements.
For example, in Australia, many states require a boat licence for any vessel with engines of more than about 6HP.

Also note that, with the RYA, you can undertake any course (except for Yachtmaster Ocean) at any time.

E.g you can go straight to Yachtmaster Offshore if you are competent enough and meet the prerequisites.

I also recommend doing a number of the preceding courses as well, however there is no need to do them all.

If you are complete beginners, then you might choose a path like:
Competent Crew
Day Skipper
Yachtmaster Offshore
Yachtmaster Ocean

Realistically that would take a couple of years assuming you’re picking up the required hours and miles on a part-time basis.

Finally, apparently the RYA is looking at revamping the Yachtmaster Ocean course to reduce the amount of celestial navigation and increase the amount of “everything else” you need to know.

There is no Yachtmaster offshore “ course “ it’s not a taught course like day skipper. There is an on boat assessment.

There are “ Yachtmaster “ shore based courses but these are created by the school passing them does not provide a mechanism to acquire a YM

[markcouz]

Originally Posted by Eswee

As I’ve mentioned before, my wife and I have a plan to start sailing but will only buy a CAT in 5-7 years. The plan is to sail around the world, mostly in coastal waters but to get to places we’ll need to cross oceans. We want to get as much experience as possible before then and get all the accreditation/licences needed.



What licences or accreditation does one need to sail a 30-something foot CAT around the world? We live in South Africa and the sailing schools offer RYA accredited courses. First you do the Competent Crew/deck hand course, then Day Skipper, then Coastal Skipper and then you’re only allowed to go 20nm from safe port. Once you do the Offshore Skipper you can go 150nm. Only after getting the Yachtmaster Ocean Skipper qualification are you allowed to go past that. The course is almost 5 months if you do it full time (part time could take years) and costs LOADS of money.



If we’re going to cross oceans then we’re going way past 20nm or 150nm so does this mean that we have to do the full Ocean Skipper course for us to be allowed to sail a CAT around the world?

Eswee, as an RSA flagged boat you will require a Yachtmaster Ocean on board and a SAMSA registration as apposed to SAS listing in order to leave SA shores.

Also SAMSA has very onerous regular inspection requirements which include haul out hull inspection, prop shaft inspection requiring extraction of the prop shaft, rudder shaft inspection requiring dropping the rudder etc - and all above to he carried out by SAMSA certified surveyor which may be impossible to find in Fiji or Grenada or wherever, if you ask how you should overcome this obstacle they answer that you can simply fly out the surveyor required!!!

Simple answer is to get your SAS Dayskipper which entitles you to apply for your ICC, then register your boat offshore (I chose Poland) and all these ridiculous requirements fall away.

Just register SAS while preparing and then Offshore within 90 days of departure.

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There is no Yachtmaster offshore “ course “ it’s not a taught course like day skipper. There is an on boat assessment.

There are “ Yachtmaster “ shore based courses but these are created by the school passing them does not provide a mechanism to acquire a YM

Correct and worded more clearly.

[Eswee]

Originally Posted by markcouz

Eswee, as an RSA flagged boat you will require a Yachtmaster Ocean on board and a SAMSA registration as apposed to SAS listing in order to leave SA shores.

Also SAMSA has very onerous regular inspection requirements which include haul out hull inspection, prop shaft inspection requiring extraction of the prop shaft, rudder shaft inspection requiring dropping the rudder etc - and all above to he carried out by SAMSA certified surveyor which may be impossible to find in Fiji or Grenada or wherever, if you ask how you should overcome this obstacle they answer that you can simply fly out the surveyor required!!!

Simple answer is to get your SAS Dayskipper which entitles you to apply for your ICC, then register your boat offshore (I chose Poland) and all these ridiculous requirements fall away.

Just register SAS while preparing and then Offshore within 90 days of departure.

Thanks for the info Mark. Yes I've noticed that SA has way more requirements and rules than other countries but I just wasn't sure which route to follow. Look, it's not a bad thing that skippers should be licenced or accredited in some way but to do the full monty accreditation up to Yachmaster Ocean will take years and for us not living near the coast is almost impossible to do. We want to do the Day Skippers (and ICC), radio course, diesel mechanic, navigation and whatever is needed to safely sail and get as much time as possible on yachts before we buy our own boat.


Mark - whats the process with registering an SA flagged boat under a foreign flag like Poland? Isn't it better/easier just buying a boat in a foreign country? Except the actual viewing and buying will be more of a hassle.

[markcouz]

I used (boatandyachtregistation dot com), all online and very simple.

About EU470 for registration and EU200 for mmsi number.

After that you are a South African traveling on a Polish flagged vessel - no issue.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

It's funny that they have the "Canadian Pleasure Craft Operator Card" is on the list; that's an online only test that a 12 year old could pass which is good for your lifetime.

Insurance desk managers who have no glue and care about stamped papers that signs them off being responsible.
Experience at sea beats every theory or course.

But I fully agree with RYA being useful and gives beginners good knowledge.
I would give you the following advice:
Do your local beginner license, then get some miles with friends that have boats or if not crew via crewseekers or crew bay on some shorter trips with captains that have experience.
Then right away take the RYA Day Skipper course, it's a huge amount of very practical and necessary theory. If you fail, doesn't matter, make 1 or 2 trips again and take the full course a 2nd time.
With the day skipper you can charter and get more experience plus crew on some longer delivery trips. Like this if you really like being longer on a boat and get the dirty side too as delivery are always an adventure trip. Like this you can also get the necessary qualification miles for your next course the RYA Yacht master costal or offshore. Then do the course, again if you fail, 1 or 2 trip where you can practice and just take it a 2nd time.
I done it this way advised by an owner of an RYA sailing school and rescue boat captain who was sailing before she could walk. Spend your money on practice and just take the valuable big step courses, you grow during the challenge and the experience you get during the course is the real value, the cert is the add on providing the necessary toilet paper for insurance and officials.
Had the huge luck to do a delivery with her from La Rochelle to Antigua, done the Yacht master ocean during delivery and at the same time the qualifying miles needed for the yachtmaster offshore. She was actually officially doing the yacht master offshore trainer license during this delivery as she never had time before to do it...so I was her sparing student :-)
SA waters are also very difficult so if you managing there a day Skipper, mediterran and most other waters is piece of cake for you.
Deliverys or crewing you can combine looking for 30+ cat you like. Going around the world the only capable under 38ft is the FP Mahe 36 but you will figure you want 40ft length due to hobby horsing and behavior in ocean waves. I wanted the same then you and ended up with a FP Lavezzi 40ft. Well sailing catamaran that's light=light wind sailing instead motoring, interior volume of today's 36ft but 40ft water length.
Just my 2 cents... I am Sailing around the world now and started in 2016 with the RYA day Skipper in Gibraltar, done some sailing with friends before like on bigger lakes but nothing serious or frequent.

[caffel]

I sailed abt halfway around the world in a flagged 35 ' cutter before most of these regs we're a factor.
No skippers licenses ever were required for the foreign cruises passing through
On the other hand, the harbormasters in Durban and Capetown were conservative, proactive and properly protective of their marine rescue resources.
SA skippers were required to either get certified (or be in the Capetown to Rio race). In order to successfully complete checkout procedures to depart for any other country.
Foreign skippers passing through we're quizzed about their routing plans and advised at length by the harbormasters about the cape's unique weather and currents.

[goboatingnow]

I would second CaptainRivet

Do the day skipper , there are no perquisites for this. Get the ICC

Then aim over time for the YM offshore. This is the pinnacle cert ( the ocean is a bit of a curiosity cert )

Don’t overly focus on certification, it’s a help but it’s not the same as good all-round experience. In my case about 5 years passed after my day skipper to the YM certs.

[double u]

as you write
"... but will only buy a CAT in 5-7 years...":
don't worry overly much, the statistics are firmly against you: of all the people planning to "sail around the world seven years from now" - maybe 1% really will "set off" & of these maybe 5-10% will rtw. A the bible says: "many are called (or believe they are), but few are chosen.."

[Kd9truck]

Certifications are very good to have, experience in adverse conditions and exhaustion is what will help you sleep off shore. You will find the detail of your dreams will be altered by its assimilation to reality.
Look to build off shore experience by crewing on some one else’s vessel, mono’s will be easier to find a trip on. There are cruisers clubs that help captains find willing and able crew, state side. Join a YC, find out what your tolerance for “things” are, sea sickness, sleep deprivation, having basic mechanical understanding of everything that is on your vessel and how to fix it and, what can and will break.

“My 2 cents”
Cheers

[bgallinger]

So if you are caught sailing your South African registered boat more than 20 nm out, what are they(?) gonna do? Throw you in jail? How would they(?) ever find you? How bizarre!

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Formal training is very useful ( to anyone young or old ) as it covers things you may know little about. .

Good point. I plan to challenge ASA courses in a couple months. By doing that I might be missing some valuable learning. But I wonder if other experienced skippers who did take the full courses thought they learned anything important new? If so, what was that?

I get lots of info for free right here in CF!