Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-06-2022, 10:49   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Boat: No boat. Yet!
Posts: 7
Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

As I’ve mentioned before, my wife and I have a plan to start sailing but will only buy a CAT in 5-7 years. The plan is to sail around the world, mostly in coastal waters but to get to places we’ll need to cross oceans. We want to get as much experience as possible before then and get all the accreditation/licences needed.

What licences or accreditation does one need to sail a 30-something foot CAT around the world? We live in South Africa and the sailing schools offer RYA accredited courses. First you do the Competent Crew/deck hand course, then Day Skipper, then Coastal Skipper and then you’re only allowed to go 20nm from safe port. Once you do the Offshore Skipper you can go 150nm. Only after getting the Yachtmaster Ocean Skipper qualification are you allowed to go past that. The course is almost 5 months if you do it full time (part time could take years) and costs LOADS of money.

If we’re going to cross oceans then we’re going way past 20nm or 150nm so does this mean that we have to do the full Ocean Skipper course for us to be allowed to sail a CAT around the world?
Eswee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 11:09   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 5,700
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Bottom line is ... All you need is the boat. No licenses or endorsements required for pleasure craft of that size range.

If you want insurance on that boat it becomes a whole different matter.
You could talk to your underwriter and see what they require but that will likely have little bearing on what the underwriter will say in 5-7yrs. Few business are changing more rapidly than marine underwriters.

However, there are huge personal benefits for the inexperienced in taking the RYA Yachtmaster.
__________________
Your doubt does not negate my experience.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 11:09   #3
Moderator
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,666
Images: 4
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

In the USA you don't need *any* license or accreditation to sail around the world. Now if you want insurance for the boat you will probably have to demonstrate some appropriate experience, or perhaps training.

I will be interested to see how other countries handle this...
__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 11:15   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 241
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Agree with the other replies in general, but the OP does say they reside in SA. My understanding is that South Africa does have licensing/training requirements. So, if the boat will be SA-flagged...

https://www.sailing.org.za/s-v-c/skippertickets/
PippaB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 12:13   #5
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 19,843
Images: 3
Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Bottom line is ... All you need is the boat. No licenses or endorsements required for pleasure craft of that size range.

If you want insurance on that boat it becomes a whole different matter.
You could talk to your underwriter and see what they require but that will likely have little bearing on what the underwriter will say in 5-7yrs. Few business are changing more rapidly than marine underwriters.

However, there are huge personal benefits for the inexperienced in taking the RYA Yachtmaster.


The inexperienced can’t take the Yachtmaster , you need considerable documented sea mile experience to qualify for the exam
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 12:17   #6
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 19,843
Images: 3
Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eswee View Post
As I’ve mentioned before, my wife and I have a plan to start sailing but will only buy a CAT in 5-7 years. The plan is to sail around the world, mostly in coastal waters but to get to places we’ll need to cross oceans. We want to get as much experience as possible before then and get all the accreditation/licences needed.



What licences or accreditation does one need to sail a 30-something foot CAT around the world? We live in South Africa and the sailing schools offer RYA accredited courses. First you do the Competent Crew/deck hand course, then Day Skipper, then Coastal Skipper and then you’re only allowed to go 20nm from safe port. Once you do the Offshore Skipper you can go 150nm. Only after getting the Yachtmaster Ocean Skipper qualification are you allowed to go past that. The course is almost 5 months if you do it full time (part time could take years) and costs LOADS of money.



If we’re going to cross oceans then we’re going way past 20nm or 150nm so does this mean that we have to do the full Ocean Skipper course for us to be allowed to sail a CAT around the world?


I would recommend the RYA Day skipper , covers both night and day sailing and covers a considerable syllabus. Typically 5 days on a boat , or sometimes boat and classroom mix.

Note the distance restrictions are national stipulations. The ticket itself has no such stipulations

If SA issues it, then get your ICC on the back of your dayskipper

Formal training is very useful ( to anyone young or old ) as it covers things you may know little about. .
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 12:45   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Boat: No boat. Yet!
Posts: 7
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Yes we also want to do the South African Sailing (SAS) Day Skipper course (which gives us ICC as well) but it still limits us to day time sailing only within 20nm of safe port. Only when you go 4 courses up in the tier, The Yachmaster Ocean Skipper allows you to sail anywhere. Maybe I’m missing something.
Eswee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 12:48   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Boat: No boat. Yet!
Posts: 7
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

So the 20nm restriction would be for SA waters only and not applicable to other coasts? And night time sailing? Would that also just be applicable to SA waters?
Eswee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 12:48   #9
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 19,843
Images: 3
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eswee View Post
Yes we also want to do the South African Sailing (SAS) Day Skipper course (which gives us ICC as well) but it still limits us to day time sailing only within 20nm of safe port. Only when you go 4 courses up in the tier, The Yachmaster Ocean Skipper allows you to sail anywhere. Maybe I’m missing something.
That distance limit is particular to SA. The actual ticket has no limits. For worldwide sailing there is no standard ticket but the ICC is fine all over Europe and elsewhere

The YM ocean is an “ add on “ ticket to the YM “ Offshore “ ticket. The OFFshore ticket is unlimited. You cant do the RYA ocean YM without having the offshore
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 12:54   #10
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 19,843
Images: 3
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eswee View Post
So the 20nm restriction would be for SA waters only and not applicable to other coasts? And night time sailing? Would that also just be applicable to SA waters?
Yes for example Day skipper actually covers night sailing , very few countries have nautical limits on specific tickets.
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 13:40   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 241
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

SA requires that an SA-flagged boat greater than 9m/15HP be skippered by someone with a certificate of competence as defined in the regulations. That certificate carries endorsements for distance from shore for operation. If the boat is SA-flagged it applies wherever SA laws apply to the boat, which is generally anywhere in the world (the SA regulations do acknowledge that in foreign travel local law may trump SA requirements).

If the boat is not SA-flagged then it becomes a matter for the flag state requirements. I do not know if an SA citizen can own a boat not flagged there, have never looked into that question.
PippaB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2022, 16:58   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Swarbrick S-80
Posts: 570
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

There are also likely to be local national/state requirements.
For example, in Australia, many states require a boat licence for any vessel with engines of more than about 6HP.

Also note that, with the RYA, you can undertake any course (except for Yachtmaster Ocean) at any time.

E.g you can go straight to Yachtmaster Offshore if you are competent enough and meet the prerequisites.

I also recommend doing a number of the preceding courses as well, however there is no need to do them all.

If you are complete beginners, then you might choose a path like:
Competent Crew
Day Skipper
Yachtmaster Offshore
Yachtmaster Ocean

Realistically that would take a couple of years assuming you’re picking up the required hours and miles on a part-time basis.

Finally, apparently the RYA is looking at revamping the Yachtmaster Ocean course to reduce the amount of celestial navigation and increase the amount of “everything else” you need to know.
ChrisJHC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 00:24   #13
Registered User
 
mark_morwood's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane after cruising (Atlantic -> Med -> Carib -> Pacific)
Boat: Vancouver 36, Hobie 33, Catana 48, now all with new owners
Posts: 354
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

It's been implied above but it's good to be explicit - generally when sailing a recreational boat around the world you are sailing under the registration and licensing rules of the country that the boat is registered in, not the licensing and registration rules of the country you are visiting.

So if my boat is flagged in the USA then I must meet their skipper licensing requirements (none), if my boat is flagged in Spain then I must meet their extensive licensing requirements with different levels of licence for different distances offshore. Countries you sail in generally respect the rules of the flag country with respect to registration and licences while you are navigating a foreign flagged vessel in their waters. This also applies to boat rules like required safety equipment - though some countries like NZ have occasionally added additional local requirements on foreign boats.

I would be cautious about assuming this is true for your tender and then follow the local rules, not your flag country's for things like lifejackets etc.

Having said all that, getting some broadly recognised qualifications like those from RYA is very valuable, even if just for what you learn as part of the process.
mark_morwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 00:36   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,564
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
It's been implied above but it's good to be explicit - generally when sailing a recreational boat around the world you are sailing under the registration and licensing rules of the country that the boat is registered in, not the licensing and registration rules of the country you are visiting.

So if my boat is flagged in the USA then I must meet their skipper licensing requirements (none), if my boat is flagged in Spain then I must meet their extensive licensing requirements with different levels of license for different distances offshore. Countries you sail in generally respect the rules of the flag country with respect to registration and licences while you are navigating a foreign flagged vessel in their waters. .

Except for places like Queensland where I see you currently are


https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/boating/recreational
Overseas marine licences for visitors

When you visit Queensland from another country, you may be able to use your overseas marine licence if it is a current recognised overseas licence (PDF, 130KB).
If your recognised overseas marine licence is not in English, you will need a translation from an accredited National Accreditation Authority for Translators and Interpreters translator and must keep this with your licence.
If your overseas marine licence is not recognised, you will need to contact an approved BoatSafe training provider to assess recognition of prior learning and then apply for your marine licence.
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 00:44   #15
Registered User
 
mark_morwood's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane after cruising (Atlantic -> Med -> Carib -> Pacific)
Boat: Vancouver 36, Hobie 33, Catana 48, now all with new owners
Posts: 354
Re: Licence/accreditation required to sail around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Except for places like Queensland where I see you currently are
Yeah, tell me about it. When I moved back here (having spent the previous 4 years sailing from Boston), TMR didn't recognise a RYA Yachtmaster Offshore as a qualification so I did the marine licence course from scratch so I could drive a dinghy! Still, I'm not really complaining, I think having compulsory licensing for boat skippers is sensible.

But I do think they generally apply the reciprocal arrangement to foreign cruisers. Certainly did for the cruisers I knew who have come here. My understanding of the above rules is that they are really aimed at people like me who are becoming residents here, or visitors who want to charter - not skippers on foreign flagged yachts. Like having to get a new licence three months after you move states.
mark_morwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, round the world, sail

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
International Accreditation Sailing Schools Operating Now? KetoNomad Training, Licensing & Certification 16 22-08-2017 19:30
German, living in Canada, wanting to Sail in the Meds, what licence to get? MonsterJoe Training, Licensing & Certification 4 30-12-2015 08:53

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.