Is buying a Starter Boat a dumb idea?

[deminimis]

Great thread! I'm still several years out from getting a catamaran, but want to sail some now (and not rely on just our friends with monos or cats). We are constantly on the water in Summer (either wakeboarding (we have an X-Star), trying to kiteboard, paddleboarding, or panhandling for a ride on a sailboat, etc). Wife is onboard with my cat plan, to some extent. I've been thinking it might be a good idea for a little sailboat of our own for now. I too have been leaning towards a smaller Corsair. This would be used on the Columbia River (on what we would consider light wind days). I have the 1-ton pickup for towing, the large shop for storing and water close by. Seems like one heck of a way to have some fun (and get into a little bit of trouble now and then for good measure). Enjoyed reading the input thus far.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

The used Corsairs look really appealing for a weekend/camping boat.

My main concern is financial. I have no idea how to get an honest read of the boat market since the only experience I have with it is used powerboats for lake fishing and towing kids on inflatables.

If I could buy something trailerable for say $50,000, maintain it well, clean it up, put perhaps $10,000 into upgrades and sell it three or four years later for $40,000 I think I'd feel like it was well worth the effort.

Does that sound like a dumb idea to you? Nobody can predict the future of course, but does your gut say "that'd be a hot item" or "that'd be a weight around your neck"?

Those Corsairs or other F boats (for Ian Farrier) are always in demand and cost a bit more than a typical trailer sailor would. But if kept in nice shape, you'd have no problem selling one later. Note, they can be a bear to get on and off your trailer so they are maybe a better weekend boat than a day sailor.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

My view is that a starter boat below 30 ft makes little sense. It will be small, uncomfortable, no shade, no standing room, no proper head. As your kids grow up they will need space to use their tablets. You are much better off renting than owning a trainable boat.

Buy a boat that you feel passionate above. Either you like the designer, the looks, layout, etc. If sailing turns out not to be your thing, sell the boat.

My min size recommendation is 30 ft for three (two kids + an adult), 40 ft for a family of four and 50 ft (3rd cabin) for a family of five, if you plan to all sail together. Adjust the age according to your budget.

SV Pizzazz

You bet Pizzazz. A boat needs to be something you can hang out on with friends or family - less than thirty feet won't get it. Too many little boat owners are sitting at home because they hate sailing. They hate sailing because their little boat is not comfortable to sail or even be on. I have to wonder how many of them would have loved sailing had they not started on the smallest boat they could find.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Just some random thoughts.

Any fboat you buy will like spoil you for many other boats. They are stupid fun to sail and will beat the pants of just about any other sailboat you meet. It is laughable to compare a C24 to an M26. It is easy to set up a boom tent on a C24 and there will be plenty of room for weekends and even longer if you can find provisions along the way. Only real down side is the C24 will be at least four or five times the price of the M26.

Most fboat guys view the C27 as the sweet spot in terms of bang for the buck. While you could take it to the Bahamas (if you watch the weather window it should be an easy trip over and you may have to wait to cross back) it would be tight with two kids. Which raises another issue, some kids take to sailing like a duck to water while others just sulk around and can cause real problems if things start to go down hill. I have seen a ten year old girl totally mess up a cruise to DT on a fifty footer. I am also not sure how to handle sperate berths for a young boy and girl, not the least of which is sometimes they just need to be apart. On a C28 with an aft cabin the boy might wind up sleeping with you and the girl with your wife just to keep the peace. My first choice given what you have posted about your needs would be the C28 with the center cockpit.

A C31 offers a lot more space but it is a very powerful rig and you can get in trouble real fast if the wind pipes up. A C31 with a center cockpit would also offer the same separation the C28 offers. The C36/37/38 would obviously offer a lot more room but are not really trailer sailers and the minimum buy in would be at least a little North of a hundred grand. Probably would need to put it in the water at least for a month for trailering to be worth the cost and effort.

I spent a lot of time looking at fboats and almost got a C31 before I bought a Seawind catamaran. My reason was that the Seawind was a real cruiser that I could live aboard and not need to provision for months at a time while the C31 was more of a weekend boat or jumping from one marina to the next. After I did the Baja Ha-Ha and met Richard he convinced me he had the right idea, to own more than one boat. My plan was to go to Germany and buy what looked like a great deal on a C36, spend the summer cruising the canals in Europe, get to Paris in July and watch the finish of the Tour de France, and then head to the Med for the summer and once the hurricane season was over put the C36 on it's trailer head back to Florida get on my Seawind and head South; but COVID-19 put an end to that.

Bottom line is you need to get on some flavor of an fboat, the more the better, and see how you like it. Take the kids and wife and get their input as well. Do the same thing for what I call sub 30 foot plastic monohulls, again as many as you can. I am very much of the opinion that a boat needs to fit a person. Things like head room below, how much you have to contort your body to get in the Vberth, and can you comfortably sit on the head are just a few things you have to actually do to know if the boat fits you. I am 5'8" and over weight but I had no problem getting around in a C24 (the bigger fboats were even more comfortable) but have a 6'4" friend who would never consider such a boat. Hope this helps.

"It is laughable to compare a C24 to an M26" You got that right - kind like comparing a Ferrari to a Pinto And the OP may never want to sell that boat even if he gets that big cat - heck, nothing wrong with something you can toss a tarp over and leave in your driveway. Oddly enough, my biggest concern would be snakes (the F boats have a fairly low free board and the OP is in Texas so I'll assume he's sailing in east Texas as west Texas has few lakes (or much water for that matter). East Texas is Cotton Mouth country and while I've dealt with my share of Rattle Snakes - Cotton Mouths creep me out.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

You bet Pizzazz. A boat needs to be something you can hang out on with friends or family - less than thirty feet won't get it. Too many little boat owners are sitting at home because they hate sailing. They hate sailing because their little boat is not comfortable to sail or even be on. I have to wonder how many of them would have loved sailing had they not started on the smallest boat they could find.

Frankly, this just does not reflect reality. There are thousands of folks happily sailing yachts of less than 30 feet LOA. Sure, many times a bit bigger is better for one's usage, but "needs" to be some given length before it becomes fun... well, no, not true.

I'd paraphrase part of the above to read "too many BIG boat owners sitting at home because they can't get friends or family to come sailing with them, and they need crew to go out sailing".

I know that I had a hell of a good time on ALL of my boats" 15, 22, 30, 36 and 46 feet LOA in series, and I learned new lessons from each of them.

Jim

[Island Time O25]

I don't get that "smaller boats don't get sailed as much" thinking. My experience is exactly the opposite. My first starter boat was a 25 year old 27 footer and in 4-5 years that I owned her I sailed her more than I sailed my current 36 footer in the past 10 years. The 27 footer was easier to single hand or sail with a short crew of 2. The larger boat is a chore to single hand and not as much fun to sail as the smaller one. Not to mention gunkholing and whatnot which was so easy with a 3.5' draft even compared to my now 5' draft.

My main reason to get a cheap throwaway first boat was to learn without a huge financial commitment. Paid $400 for her, did some work on and off over the years and when upsizing sold her for $1,100. And that work really enhanced my learning curve and helped me to when buying my next few boats.

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

You bet Pizzazz. A boat needs to be something you can hang out on with friends or family - less than thirty feet won't get it. Too many little boat owners are sitting at home because they hate sailing. They hate sailing because their little boat is not comfortable to sail or even be on. I have to wonder how many of them would have loved sailing had they not started on the smallest boat they could find.

I guess I'm a contra-case here. Our sail boats started off with a 14' Flying Fish we bought in 1975. Next came a Tanzer 22 in 1981, and finally a Pacific Seacraft 34 in 2004. We still have all three. The Flying Fish is at home in Tennessee, and our five grandchildren who are spending the week with us will sail it on Patrick Henry Lake across the street from our house. The Tanzer is on Watauga Lake, and we will race it this Saturday in the Watauga Lake Sail Club's fun race. The Pacific Seacraft is docked in New Bern, NC. My wife and I live on that boat five months out of the year usually taking it to the Bahamas and back.

Bill
(This is sort of a repeat of pots #8.)

[carraigdog]

I dont feel I would have time for a starter boat! I will be 64 this September and actively looking, my current beau is a Edel 36 cat, but am also flirting with both Prout 34,s and 37,s, and also the odd hankering for a 34 Bav or Benny mono! But I feel I might be too old to change my mind if I dont get the first shot right

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by carraigdog

I dont feel I would have time for a starter boat! I will be 64 this September and actively looking, my current beau is a Edel 36 cat, but am also flirting with both Prout 34,s and 37,s, and also the odd hankering for a 34 Bav or Benny mono! But I feel I might be too old to change my mind if I dont get the first shot right

Nothing wrong with any of those boats but they are very different in many ways. First off multihulls and monohulls are not even close in terms of function. The Edel is a lot faster than the Prouts and a much more modern boat. Again not saying any of these boats are better or worse; just that someone who got it right with one choice likely would think they did not get it right with a different choice.