Is buying a Starter Boat a dumb idea?

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

SNIP

And if I could sail both coasts for the price of a wide-load transport, even better.

I think the dream boat is maybe more Dragonfly 40 than Seawind 1260 if it’s not a full-time home.

SNIP

Just so we are all on the same page the Dragonfly 40 is close to twice the price of a Seawind 1260. Something like a C37 is more of a fair comparison price point wise.

I spend probably a year looking at lots of fboats (and thinking about Dragonflys but they are few and far between) and would up with a Seawind. To me there was no contest in terms of cruising comfort and the ability to spend months on the boat. I am still looking for an fboat of some flavor as a second boat, but for the last couple of years have not seen any what I call super deals; the price of fboats seems very stable. I still have only seen one Dragonfly in person, and that was at a distance since it was in a slip behind a locked gate.

I do like the idea of a Dragonfly and seriously considered going to the Keys to look at a D28 that was for sale there. Problem is it is easy to see fboats in person, and fairly easy to get a ride on one. First time I went out on one I was hooked; they are stupid fun to sail and I was shocked at how easy it was to get in and out of the water, but even the C24 required skills to trailer.

Not trying to talk you out of a Dragonfly, just saying while they look good in pix on the internet seeing one in person, and more importantly getting a ride on one, is a tall order. And there is their higher price point.

On another subject I would point out getting a monohull as a starter boat when you goal is to get a multihull would be a non starter to me. I spend many years sailing on my Dads multiple monohulls; and loved almost every minute of it. But many monohull skills don't easily transfer to multihulls.

I still think if you are looking for a starter boat a C27 or C28 is your best choice. Even a C31 could be considered if you up your price point a little.

[belizesailor]

Let me rephrase that for you "...buying a ... boat ... is a dumb idea".

Starting from that premise, as long as you can easily afford it, one boat is not much dumber than the other! [emoji6]

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Just so we are all on the same page the Dragonfly 40 is close to twice the price of a Seawind 1260.

A new, delivered 1260 loaded up for cruising is around $580K I think. I doubt I’d need that, but that was my target. Since I wouldn’t pay VAT (unless I’m horribly mistaken!), it seemed like a DF40 would come in around $650K. But that’s just going off what I’ve read, and that the show boat was ballparked at $750K with VAT and had an upgraded engine.

It’ll probably stay a dreamboat when a DF32 can be had for $250K, but no harm in it I figure being years away.

Originally Posted by tomfl

I still think if you are looking for a starter boat a C27 or C28 is your best choice. Even a C31 could be considered if you up your price point a little.

I’m thinking you’re right. The reasons you gave make a lot of sense to me. Not that I’d know any better.

An enclosed head is super high on the “want” list for both of us. I figure we’ve got at least six months to decide. Want to get on the water at the lakes a bit first at this point anyway.

[islanderp40]

What you describe does not fit the definition of a starter boat. Rule of thumb for a non-project boat median price per foot: $1000.00. And, it better be next to pristine if under 40ft and less than 15 years old. A starter boat is something that sails and motors and not much more with a lot of issues but serves the purpose of helping you understand your goals vs resources. Sounds like you're on a lake. If you long term goals are to sail the seas. You need to rethink what you are trying to do. If you only want to sail but fishing and camping too this is a tall order on a lake especially trailering. Personally, I hate trailering. And, something as big and heavy as say a 24ft sailboat is unimagineable. If you are staying on the lake buy a cabin cruiser or better a trawler with a Beta maring or Yanmar engine.

[dwightsusan]

Everyone has their own idea, their own opinion. Me included. If you are thinking Corsair, you must be inclined toward a multihull (trimaran or catamaran). If you have never sailed and are a novice, get a used Hobie Cat for less than $3 grand and learn to sail on a multihull, a far different breed than a monohull. After you get a basic handle on apparent wind, tacking, and multihull quirks in general, the Hobie Cat is disposable (or probably still worth most of the $3 grand). Do a few short charters on a bigger (30-40 foot) boat to learn more differences among various types of multihulls. Then bust out your $50+ grand for something right for you, born out of your own personal experience. This is a big decision, potentially a life changer. Don't jump in without some experience and acquired knowledge behind you.

[petermjdavies]

You got a bunch of good replies. Some of it also depends on your location. I am based in the UK.


We bought a 24ft Gibsea and had her for 3 years. It confirmed we liked sailing and wanted something bigger. We did virtually no work as she was a new boat.

We bought a 28ft Etap and sailed her for 30 years. We put about 1000 NM a year and dids multiple channel crossings, 2 week holidays and many weekends on her. She sailed well but was a bit short on storage and water/fuel capacity. We did a ton of work on her over the years some by ourselves and some with professional help. We did upgrade sails and electronics over the years, but she was essentially a weekend boat topping out in a F6 if sailing to windward.

Now we are close to retirement and we bought a 15 year old Degero 331 DS. The deck saloon configuration works for us and gives us range options when we spend more time on the boat. We plan to do much of the upgrade work we plan to do ourselves, but will also use professionals to help. We are busy learning a bunch of new systems. We never had heating, hot water, battery monitoring, radar, wheel with autohelm capability. We expect to be able to take in some fairly bad weather, be self sufficient for at least a couple of weeks.

Although it may take you a while to sell your starter boat it is definitely the right thing to do.

[Saskatchewan]

Hi, I have owned an 1993 F-27 Corsair since 2001 And still sail it every summer for many months. Fantastic boat for my purposes but not a starter boat in my opinion. I sailed for many years before this boat, beach cats, windsurfers for years and bare boat charters in the Caribe for 15 years. The Corsair lean to the performance side heavily, and are limited on space. My wife will not get on the boat in a blow as it is fast and too exciting for her tastes, but Some of my kids and buddies have a blast. Having said that many Corsair owners sail long hauls and live on their boats, each to their own.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

The used Corsairs look really appealing for a weekend/camping boat.

My main concern is financial. I have no idea how to get an honest read of the boat market since the only experience I have with it is used powerboats for lake fishing and towing kids on inflatables.

If I could buy something trailerable for say $50,000, maintain it well, clean it up, put perhaps $10,000 into upgrades and sell it three or four years later for $40,000 I think I'd feel like it was well worth the effort.

Does that sound like a dumb idea to you? Nobody can predict the future of course, but does your gut say "that'd be a hot item" or "that'd be a weight around your neck"?

Depending on the size you very well can do this for a lot less than $50k. I bought a. Corsair 24 Mkll for $25k on a trailer. Towed it behind my Ford Escape from Louisiana to North Carolina. It had no cushions in it so I had cushions made, built a small electrical system with a smal flexible solar panel for GPS, & Tillerpilot. Used battery operated devices and I had a weekender. Sold it for $30k a year later.

[BobbyHR]

Agreed, great idea and Corsairs are terrific. You can sell them, and for about what you paid for it.
You will need a capable tow vehicle, one that legally can meet the weight of the trailered boat.
Beware, you will love the boat and be spoiled forever by it's performance.
Bobby, Corsair 27.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

A new, delivered 1260 loaded up for cruising is around $580K I think. I doubt I’d need that, but that was my target. Since I wouldn’t pay VAT (unless I’m horribly mistaken!), it seemed like a DF40 would come in around $650K. But that’s just going off what I’ve read, and that the show boat was ballparked at $750K with VAT and had an upgraded engine.

It’ll probably stay a dreamboat when a DF32 can be had for $250K, but no harm in it I figure being years away.



I’m thinking you’re right. The reasons you gave make a lot of sense to me. Not that I’d know any better.

An enclosed head is super high on the “want” list for both of us. I figure we’ve got at least six months to decide. Want to get on the water at the lakes a bit first at this point anyway.

The list price for a new D40 is $US926K at this site; more with stuff you will want. List price for a Seawind 1260 is $US525K. Used prices are all over the place.

But like I posted earlier it is easy to find all manner of fboats and to a lesser extent Seawinds while Dragonflys are almost impossible to find in the wild.

Heads are a topic that will always cause lots of differences of opinion. I am a big fan of composting heads, especially on multihulls. No question they have a huge advantage in terms of weight, something crucial on multihulls. They require almost no effort to maintain compared to conventional heads. Problem with composting heads is they are not really the best option if there are lots of folks using them. While both conventional and composting heads have rules that need to be followed if they are to work well to me it is a wash as to which rules are easier to follow. On the other hand if you mess up with a conventional head fixing the problem often means hours of nasty stinky work using parts you may need to order (google joker valve as an example) while with a composting head you simply unbolt it, put it in a garbage bag, turn it upside down to empty it, and rinse it out with a hose, and reinstall it. Takes a few minutes at most.

In making my decision a big factor was I wanted a boat in a realistic time frame. Still I spent almost a year before I found one I bought. Looked at lots of boats, sailed on several, spoke to brokers, talked to owners, and looked at endless pix on the internet.

Even if you knew the boat you wanted to buy you might not find one for sale; less yet find one close buy. Bottom line is it takes time, effort, and money for travel to find the boat that best fits you.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by dwightsusan

Everyone has their own idea, their own opinion. Me included. If you are thinking Corsair, you must be inclined toward a multihull (trimaran or catamaran). If you have never sailed and are a novice, get a used Hobie Cat for less than $3 grand and learn to sail on a multihull, a far different breed than a monohull. After you get a basic handle on apparent wind, tacking, and multihull quirks in general, the Hobie Cat is disposable (or probably still worth most of the $3 grand). Do a few short charters on a bigger (30-40 foot) boat to learn more differences among various types of multihulls. Then bust out your $50+ grand for something right for you, born out of your own personal experience. This is a big decision, potentially a life changer. Don't jump in without some experience and acquired knowledge behind you.

Agree with some but not all of this. I see little transfer of skills from a Hobie to an fboat. Hobie cats are massively over canvased while fboats (unless they are a CF race version with a tall mast) are quite tame. Plenty of Hobie sailors don't think they have had a good day unless they capsize or pitch pole more than once; on the other hand most fboat sailors never lift the main hull.
Not saying if you fail to observe weather and don't reef or lower sails if needed you can't get in trouble; just that the skill28 level required to safely sail an fboat is not all that great.

While I think it is always a good idea to sail on as many boats as possible, including the multiple flavors of fboats, the ones the OP would be considering C24, C27, and C28 (non race versions) are all quite tame. While some of the newer fboats like the Pulse, Dash, 760, and other small tris can be a handful with their bigger sail plans the older ones are quite easy to sail.

To a big extent this is why I advise to find a boat that fits you, not someone else. Given the OP's price point I still think a C28 CC is the best option.

[David Mathis]

Often, people ask about the best boat to buy for a start but have no clue as to what will be the primary use after that first exciting week. Some seem to want a trailerable fly bridge sailboat that will sleep 8, or 12 in a pinch, pull water skiers, and troll for Bill fish.
Do you really want to sail? Some of those hot humid days have wind so light that a match wouldn’t be blown out. Do you have kids or friends that would like to waterski? Is your favorite beach on an island 20 miles from your marina or launch ramp? Do you anticipate being a day sailor or staying out for a month at a time and traveling considerable distance?
List your needs and wants before you start looking at boats. And do not tell the salesman that you want to spend$50,000. You can probably find a decent used boat, sail or power, that will fulfill your needs for far less money.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

Often, people ask about the best boat to buy for a start but have no clue as to what will be the primary use after that first exciting week. Some seem to want a trailerable fly bridge sailboat that will sleep 8, or 12 in a pinch, pull water skiers, and troll for Bill fish.
Do you really want to sail? Some of those hot humid days have wind so light that a match wouldn’t be blown out. Do you have kids or friends that would like to waterski? Is your favorite beach on an island 20 miles from your marina or launch ramp? Do you anticipate being a day sailor or staying out for a month at a time and traveling considerable distance?
List your needs and wants before you start looking at boats. And do not tell the salesman that you want to spend$50,000. You can probably find a decent used boat, sail or power, that will fulfill your needs for far less money.

The OP in several posts indicated he wants to get his feet wet with some flavor of a multihull with the long range plan of getting a bigger multihull and cruising long term if things work out. He also wants to see how much, or little, his family would deal with being on a boat. He expressed no interest in a power boat.

[CaptWho]

I agree with the philosophy of starting small. My first boat was an O'Day 22 (which I purchased for $400 if I remember correctly) and I sailed the heck out of it. From that I moved up to a 28' sloop, then to a 38' ketch. I'm boatless at the moment, but I'm looking for something in the 44'-50' range that I can repower to electric.

There are a ton of sites right there in Texas that will help you find the right boat. https://sailingtexas.com/ctexasclassifieds.html.

S2 8.0 for free. Nice boat

1973 Erickson 27 for $1850. Looks like they're anxious to get rid of it. Price could be extremely negotiable.

This search took me around 10 minutes. There are a ton of good deals out there and lots for free.

[ejlindahl]

OP mentioned a Dragonfly 28. IIRC they are not trailerable. I think they are too wide, but check this for yourself. Their folding is just for getting into a normal moorage slip.

The "enclosed" head on my 2002 F28CC was smaller than a phone booth. It was a struggle to slide the door past my knees, and usually I didn't bother. I'm 6'. If you are smaller it will be easier. The F31 head is much bigger though still small.

The head on my buddies Dragonfly 35 didn't seem any bigger than my F31 .

I say get a stable day sailor to learn how to sail. Lightning, Flying Scott, or smaller, etc. Fast to trailer sail. Or just jump into a Corsair 24, Catalina 22. See if you like owning a boat. If not you can sell these for nearly what you bought it for or ,like a poster above, for more than you bought it for.

I would not recommend a Corsair 31 as a starter boat.