In search of perfect expedition boat

[Cotemar]

If you don't need sails, then why not go with an Expedition Power Catamaran.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I'm kinda getting the impression that you're fantasizing about this, watching a lot of boat videos, and don't really have much practical experience at all to frame up your requirements.

An expedition boat is a boat with simple, easily serviced systems, that is low maintenance, with capacities and features to support operation in remote areas.

That Little Harbor is NOT that boat. It's an inflated New England cruising boat. I get the sense from watching that video that the owner is selling after 8 years because of the sheer cost of owning and operating the boat. It must be monumental.

You can take any four cabin catamaran and turn one of the cabins into a workshop. DONE. It's not hard, a little cabinetry. Any space can be a workshop. Are you honestly complaining that no one has installed a workbench and vise for you already?

The St. Francis 50 would in fact be a good candidate. It's a pretty low frills cat, is pretty quick, and systems are straightforward. I delivered one and in fact thought it would make a good long range cruising boat with the right equipment.

You can call it fantasy, I don't mind In fact, at the current stage it actually is.
Now, I guess I have to clarify OP. By expedition boat I didn't mean actual scientific expedition, high latitudes etc. I used this term to separate it from cruiser boats, when the main purpose is relaxing and not carrying workshop onboard.
So let's call it "adventure boat" instead, if it makes sense.
Now, I've included that 75ft boat in OP with the purpose. No, I'm not a fan of spartan life or simple boat with minimum comfort.
And I willing to pay the price in terms of maintenance! That's why I need the shop!
Did you guys notice - that 75ft boat even has bath tub! And yes, I do need that!
I want to have all basic comfort available at home. Queen bed, daily hot shower for few people, once per week hot bath, air conditioner, dehumidifiers to keep tools and equipment dry, dive compressor etc.

And once again - building new boat is out of question as it's simply out of my budget.

[ranchero76]

There are actually 3 custom boats on the market right now which could be good candidate for refit. Oddly enough, all of them are aluminum. One even has flybridge, which I absolutely love. But they're priced almost same as 3-year old Lagoon 620, and refit/preparation would be another $150-$200K, even if I would do as much work myself as I can. So - no go for now.

There's one more important thing to consider when comparing big older/custom catamaran to newer (3-5-year old) big production cat. These big newer cats are owned by wealthy people, who often spend A LOT on additional equipment. I've seen big catamarans for sale, where additional equipment list EASILY exceeds 500K if you would do it yourself. Updated modern navigation equipment, very expensive sails and winches, updated electronics, generators, dive compressors, AC, big fridges and freezers, ice makers, radars, LED-lightning, scuba gear and tanks, list can be endless, along with nice finishing.
So basically if you buy such boat, you're getting all of this for free. With older/custom cats - not so much. I haven't seen any older catamaran where owner spent 500K in last 2-3 years and now selling it.
There are many Sunreef 62 on the market, some of them priced at 7XX K. Let's assume that negotiation can drop the price to 600-650K. They're actually well equipped boats. Still, 150-200K of customising would be needed (only solar/Li-Po battery bank installation would be over 50K, even if I would do most of installation myself)...again, over my budget for now. And big drawback of this cat - its 5'2" draft.
So for now - still looking. It's nice to see different opinions though. It helps to understand things.

[seahag]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I'm kinda getting the impression that you're fantasizing about this, watching a lot of boat videos, and don't really have much practical experience at all to frame up your requirements.



An expedition boat is a boat with simple, easily serviced systems, that is low maintenance, with capacities and features to support operation in remote areas.



That Little Harbor is NOT that boat. It's an inflated New England cruising boat. I get the sense from watching that video that the owner is selling after 8 years because of the sheer cost of owning and operating the boat. It must be monumental.



You can take any four cabin catamaran and turn one of the cabins into a workshop. DONE. It's not hard, a little cabinetry. Any space can be a workshop. Are you honestly complaining that no one has installed a workbench and vise for you already?



The St. Francis 50 would in fact be a good candidate. It's a pretty low frills cat, is pretty quick, and systems are straightforward. I delivered one and in fact thought it would make a good long range cruising boat with the right equipment.

So you just have to attack this guy? Another cruisers forum thread with hateballs thrown...great

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Suijin

That Little Harbor is... an inflated New England cruising boat. I get the sense from watching that video that the owner is selling after 8 years because of the sheer cost of owning and operating the boat. It must be monumental.

I get the sense that owner is very wealthy guy, who spent tremendous amount of money on refit and maintenance. It's easy to see that he knows and loves his boat a lot. Yes, asking price might be too high - that's one of these cases, when time and money spent on the boat, as well as emotional attachment drive asking price to the sky. He might be very lucky to find somebody who will appreciate his work, most likely - price will drop after year or two on the market. But it doesn't look like urgent sale, and it looks like $750K - not a huge deal for seller anyway.

[AmericanVagrant]

I think size of the crew is the most important question not yet addressed. Everything about a 75' vessel would be an extraordinary burden.

Aside from that bathtub, everything you mentioned wanting (Queen bed, daily hot shower, air conditioner, dehumidifiers, dive compressor, etc.) I'd expect would fit fine on most well thought out, spacious boats 35' and up. The added LOA is just giving you comfort and room for more bodies, so that's why your intended number of crew is very relevant to the conversation.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by AmericanVagrant

I think size of the crew is the most important question not yet addressed. Everything about a 75' vessel would be an extraordinary burden.

Aside from that bathtub, everything you mentioned wanting (Queen bed, daily hot shower, air conditioner, dehumidifiers, dive compressor, etc.) I'd expect would fit fine on most well thought out, spacious boats 35' and up. The added LOA is just giving you comfort and room for more bodies, so that's why your intended number of crew is very relevant to the conversation.

Remember, I've mentioned toys and equipment? This includes (but not limited to) ROV and (possibly) jet-ski. So let's assume, it's 1500-2000lbs of equipment (including scuba gear etc.) Most important - they take space, quite a bit of space.
Then solar - at least 8-10kW to feed all that power-hungry equipment. That might be not that heavy (in case of using flex panels), but supporting structures, wiring, charge controllers, inverters etc. will bring the weight up very quickly. I would estimate it at least 800lb. The battery bank. Let say 50kWh of Li-Po batteries. You tell me what would be the weight (but original battery bank weight would be subtracted).
Tools and workshop. Hard to estimate, but I think it's safe to say that all the tools that I want to have onboard, with bench etc. would be easy 1500lb.
So it looks like we're adding at least 4500-5000 lbs to the weight of the boat (most likely - more). Minus the weight of one cabin (to make a shop), minus all extra heads (remain two) - still a hefty weight. Don't think any 40-45ft boat will be happy with such addition.
For the crew - let say 4 people, occasionally 6-8. And yes, I'd like to have some room for them, not to be on top of each other.

[ranchero76]

Regarding LOA. There's 75 ft catamaran on the market, which already has dream shop. When I first posted it, about year ago, it was priced at 750K or something like that. When I've mentioned - in my opinion, it was way overpriced, I've received very hard time from members here, who tried to tell me that I'm wrong
Now, one year later, price down to $456K . Still not sold, so I suppose - I was correct indeed
The price actually quite attractive, and it ticks so many of my boxes. But it's simply way too big. I mean - Lagoon 620 is huge, but this is 13ft longer!

1990 Custome Skye Sailing Catamaran , Yeppoon Australia - boats.com

[downunder]

Yep,

it is located at Yeppoon in Central Queensland, Australia.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by downunder

Yep,

it is located at Yeppoon in Central Queensland, Australia.

There's story behind it - it had heavy damage couple times, also been drifting abandoned...somebody provided links year ago.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Here you go
Sail Surf ROAM
FILM — Sail Surf ROAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYI0pkRk7dw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaRmkSHtTvw

As to the workshop thing, if you can't figure out how to add one to a boat, any boat, then you're not going to get a lot of use out of it, or the tools in it. A guy with skills IS McGuyver, he can figure out a solution to the problem of the moment, using the tools & skills on hand in most situations. The opposite is also true, & usually much more common.

I'm not sure I see the need behind literally a ton of tools, given that I've build boats with about 10% of that, not counting consumables & basic supplies. Even 50gal of epoxy is but a quarter, or a third of this mass. So can you extrapolate on this please.

[PortClydeMe]

I read your original post, and I could be wrong, yet I think I understand what you're looking for. Forget the term (i.e., expedition/adventure), and yes, I've watched that Little Harbor video before.

That aside, whether mono or cat, you can "almost" make any boat into what you desire. Only you know what you want for comfort items, and I did notice that you mentioned "toys" before "equipment" and "workshop". Thus, with comfort items set aside for a moment, let's focus on equipment, which some people actually place in the "comfort items" category, depending.

I look at it this way. For me, I want a vessel that I can feel comfortable "alone in" for very long periods of time. That would include LOTS of food, fuel, and water storage, a water maker, a generator, air conditioning, washer/dryer, ice maker, scuba tank(s), a scuba-tank air compressor, and the tools, fluids, and spares needed to maintain everything myself. Now THERE'S the cookie. That means that beyond being a good sailor, you must also be a good:

1) marine diesel mechanic
2) plumber
3) electrician
4) general mechanic
5) fiberglass repair specialist (if ever needed)
6) rigger
7) sail repairer
8) scuba diver / swimmer

Also, you must have no fear of going up masts alone or putting on scuba tanks. For me, THAT'S an adventure boat. Not an expedition boat, per se, but a boat great for long-term lower-latitiude adventures. Although there are "owner's versions", cats are generally geared for "business in the tropics", not too far from ports. Like with monos, cats can be "made into" long-term blue-water adventure vessels. It just comes down to what you want, and what YOU can "fix" and "maintain". That's all. For monos, an AMEL Super Maramu is much more suited towards adventure than, let's say, a 50-foot Hinckley.

A little off topic, and just for a quick chuckle, in 1977 I almost bought a '76 El Camino. I liked the design over the Ford Ranchero.

[PortClydeMe]

Ps; Unless you wish to "sleep" beside your engine, the size and openness of the engine room in the AMEL Super Maramu is very sufficient. In my opinion.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

I get the sense that owner is very wealthy guy, who spent tremendous amount of money on refit and maintenance. It's easy to see that he knows and loves his boat a lot. Yes, asking price might be too high - that's one of these cases, when time and money spent on the boat, as well as emotional attachment drive asking price to the sky. He might be very lucky to find somebody who will appreciate his work, most likely - price will drop after year or two on the market. But it doesn't look like urgent sale, and it looks like $750K - not a huge deal for seller anyway.

No doubt the guy is wealthy, and probably had significant prior boat ownership experience as well. And they did do an interior refit just before putting it on the market so driver is likely change of plans or health issue, who knows. But there is something in his voice and demeanor that tells me that the boat was just too much to handle and maintain. He'd not be the first...I have a good number of wealthy friends who bought more boat than they could handle and ultimately down-sized, some of them with extensive prior boat ownership experience.

But the point is, that is going to be an enormously expensive boat to maintain, from the brightwork to the systems, etc. It's almost a full-time job when you get up to that size and complexity and level of finish. Do you really want to be a slave to that, both in terms of your own time and finances? Wouldn't you rather be diving or kayaking in Tonga rather than tending to acres of varnish?

Someone asked earlier what an expedition boat is, and the rational answer is that it depends entirely on what the expedition is and the owner's appetite for luxury and ability to finance it. Beth and Evans' took a Van de Stadt hull and built out the interior themselves, and Hawk is a no-frills, easy to maintain go-anwhere boat. At the other end of the spectrum is pretty much any super yacht you can point to.

There is a well worn joke that cruising is boat repair and maintenance in exotic places. Where you land on the spectrum of your time being spent actually exploring and doing things at the one end and managing, maintaining, and repairing your vessel is going to be a function of boat size and complexity and your finances.

Put another way, if you can't afford to refit a spare cabin into a workshop, you can't afford the boat in the first place.

[boatman61]

Forget Catamarans.. get yourself a Southerly.. they have a draft as deep or shallow as you need and if your caught by the tide she'll sit nice and solid on the ground.. here's a 42ftr.. but they can be bought smaller or larger..

2007 Southerly 42RST Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk