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Privleoplag · 09-03-2017, 04:55

I'm on the boat.. Have births for 7, but 95% of the time it's just two of us. All this talk about weight being so important on a cat.
So.. Someone says, "ohhh, washing machine, think about the weight!". Same goes for anything, chain vs rope (just how much difference between wet rope and dry chain, exactly?), a water maker, tools, a 20lb heavier anchor, microwave.
So, let's think about the weight. Washing machine - after I've used 3 1/2 gallons of my 1600 lbs of water capacity, I've made up the weight of the washing machine. An anchor 20 lbs heavier than the norm, thank goodness when my wife goes to the front she weighs in at, well, let's just say she could easily be 20 lbs or even 100 lbs heavier.
I think my 10mm chain weighs less than 1 1/2 lbs a foot.. Don't know the weight of a thick rode, but it does weigh something.. My water tanks are side by side the chain locker, I'm guessing about a day of water use, or my wife not riding on the trampoline, easily offsets any difference between chain and wet/dry rode.
My 6kw generator weighs in at about the same as 2 average size persons (I don't know what average is really, I guess it's bigger nowadays), so maybe when we have a few guests on board I tell them not to go forward by the gen.
I think all this added stuff is of little consequences on most catamarans. The problem is more about my water tanks.. I like that I can have a long lasting water supply, but, admittedly, I do notice a performance improvement after I've used a 150 gallons or so.
Well, since there is only shortshort occasions when we have a lot of guests on the boat, I don't think adding stuff is much of an issue.
So from this musing, I see I should add a water maker, carry 400 lbs of water, not 1600lbs, and ohh boy, bring on the stuff then!

double u · 09-03-2017, 05:12

"...births for 7..."
better you than me...

UNCIVILIZED · 09-03-2017, 05:16

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, or to accomplish. However the weights of everything onboard are easy enough to come by, so then doing a tally isn't hard. Ditto on comparing the weights of things, like chain vs. rope rode.

If you want to SEE the Performance Difference of a heavily loaded boat vs. a svelte one. Offload everything but a pair of anchors & your working sails, & take your boat out on a day when the winds are under 10kts, or better, under 5kts. Then fill up your water tanks, & put all of your gear back on & take her sailing in similar winds.
I've yet to sail a boat where the difference wasn't noticable, well, not counting things like big heavy square riggers, or boats with single digit SADRs.

As a general rule if you want to keep your boat performing well. Offload everything, & I mean exactly that. Yearly, or several times a year. And then only put back what you NEED. Which, if you want to get super serious about it, weigh everything too, & keep a log.

Weight matters. And on 5-10T racing boats, if the winds will be light for one day of the weekend's regatta, one or two crew get left ashore in order to help with boat speed. And it does make a difference.

jdazey · 09-03-2017, 05:28

Tankage makes a big difference. It didn't take us finishing last too many times to figure that one out.

Cheers,

**John_Trusty** · 09-03-2017, 05:33

Too much cat food? - somebody had to say it.

Seriously, why did you buy your boat? To Uncivilized point, a lighter boat performs better. How important is performance to you? Do you race, or on passage are constantly tweaking your sail trim? From your profile and previous posts, it appears you're bumming around the Caribbean (semi?) retired. If the things that add weight give you a sense of security (anchor, water, etc.) or comfort (generator, toys), those seem pretty important for that use of a boat.

SV Bacchus · 09-03-2017, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Privleoplag

Washing machine - after I've used 3 1/2 gallons of my 1600 lbs of water capacity, I've made up the weight of the washing machine.

I agree with Uncivilized concerning weighing everything you put on.

For instance you "guesstimated" the weight of a washing machine as equal to 3 1/2 gallons of water. Water is 8.35 lbs a gallon so you are saying your washing machine is "about" 29.225 lbs.

When I bought a new Splendide washer/dryer, the one most commonly used on yachts, I could hardly pick it up! It took 2 of us to lift it into place. I read the manual and found out they use supplemental weight to offset shake and wobble from unbalanced loads during the spin cycle. I just checked the weight on the Splendide website, Splendide Laundry Centers - Compare All Combo Washer-Dryer Models, and see that the machines weigh 148 pounds!

There is an unaccounted difference of 118.775 pounds! And THAT, my friend, is one example of how folks get into trouble "guesstimating" the weight on their yachts.

Guesstimating weights is very good when thinking of your wife and for that I would recommend "go low, go very, very low!"

SV Bacchus · 09-03-2017, 05:58

PS: As to the posts from others, and Uncivilized, concerning tankage, you might be off on your calculations of water as well.

I went back and looked at 3 sources for weight of a gallon of water and they vary from my original quote of 8.35 down as low as 8.32 pounds for a gallon. So for simplicity with my next calculation I will round it to 8.3 pounds per gallon.

I searched several sites and see that the water tankage on a Leopard 39, in the approximate 200 gallon range (as you were estimating 1600 pounds I assume that is your tankage) is either 211 or 212 gallons.

We will go with the smaller of 211 gallons times 8.3 pounds per gallon and come up with 1751.3 pounds. You estimated 1,600 pounds, a difference of 151.3 pounds. Your guesstimating bit you again.

The unaccounted for 118.775 pounds of the washing machine and the 151.3 gallons of water = 270.075 pounds.

Wow, you have been carrying around another couple you didn't even know about.

Now, about weighing everything on the boat..

UNCIVILIZED · 09-03-2017, 06:19

Note that a lot of folks view doing what I suggested earlier as a supreme pain in the ass, & not worth the trouble (unless racing). But in addition to aiding with keeping your boat's waistline slim, removing everything from the boat & restowing it after winnowing, is an ideal opportunity to inventory everything. As well as to get rid of some of the items that you didn't realize you had 3 or 4 of, where you only really need one or two. This along with letting you know what spares it might make sense to pick up, as prior to doing such an inventory, you thought that you had a couple of spare "X's".

And the longer you keep a boat, the more crap it accumulates. Think about what moving was like when you were in college, or for the few years after, vs. when you'd lived in a house for 10yrs. BIG difference, right? Such is why spring cleanng was invented.

PS: Give the gear you don't "need" to your young live aboard 20-something neighbors who are just getting started. Remember how tight cash was at that age? They'll appreciate it, which is handy when it's time to send someone (or you) up the mast, dockside.

jdazey · 09-03-2017, 06:39

I think a lot of cruisers are trying to get away from the discipline you're suggesting. It's not cruising mode.

But I agree. While we were planning to ditch the Spledide W/D, Bacchus' comment about its weight has comfirmed that decision even if we have to dismantle it to get it through the door

Items you need and use are fine. The rest is ballast.

Cheers,

tomfl · 09-03-2017, 06:55

While I have no doubt performance will take a hit if a boat is overloaded I am even more sure the guy trimming the sails and playing with the wheel/tiller is more important to how fast the boat sails.

Back to the OP's issue I would point out that a well designed boat has what I will call an optimal water line. Overloading a boat can cause that water line to be too low; but a boat can also ride to high as well. While a race boat is most likely designed with minimal (or no) water tanks a cruising boat may well be designed to sit in the water with significant water in the tank.

There are a lot of factors which determine boat speed. Racers are constantly trimming sails and tweeking the rudder(s) while cruisers often want to set the AP and kickback and smell the roses. The biggest difference I notice on my boat is after I have cleaned the bottom. The longer you sail your boat the better feel you should get to what makes your boat sail fast. Lowering weight is only one factor. One thing not mentioned so far is how much weight you can save by replacing out a conventional head and holding tank with a composting head. Depending on how large the holding tank is you may well save a couple of hundred pounds or more. Not to mention eliminating a couple of thru hulls which will make the hull at least a little bit cleaner going through the water.

Training Wheels · 09-03-2017, 07:04

Don't think the holding tank weighs much empty.

**minaret** · 09-03-2017, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

PS: As to the posts from others, and Uncivilized, concerning tankage, you might be off on your calculations of water as well.

I went back and looked at 3 sources for weight of a gallon of water and they vary from my original quote of 8.35 down as low as 8.32 pounds for a gallon. So for simplicity with my next calculation I will round it to 8.3 pounds per gallon.

I searched several sites and see that the water tankage on a Leopard 39, in the approximate 200 gallon range (as you were estimating 1600 pounds I assume that is your tankage) is either 211 or 212 gallons.

We will go with the smaller of 211 gallons times 8.3 pounds per gallon and come up with 1751.3 pounds. You estimated 1,600 pounds, a difference of 151.3 pounds. Your guesstimating bit you again.

The unaccounted for 118.775 pounds of the washing machine and the 151.3 gallons of water = 270.075 pounds.

Wow, you have been carrying around another couple you didn't even know about.

Now, about weighing everything on the boat..

To remember- "A pint is a pound the world around".

Southern Star · 09-03-2017, 07:20

There is no question that weight is the enemy of performance in any catamaran. However, for us, comfort and cost savings often trump the need for speed. consider the following:
1. Spares. We brought one spare starter motor (already used), a spare alternator, voltage regulator, spare wiring, connectors, belts, filters, plumbing connectors, hose, clamps, s/s screws, bolts, washers etc. I am glad we did not only for convenience, but because availability is very limited and the cost of these items in the Bahamas can be multiples of what they are in North America.

2. Ships stores: Beer is $40. a case and up in the Bahamas, much less than half that in the US. MIx and wine are also much more expensive here. As a result, we stocked up on three months of all of these prior to departing the US.

3. All chain rodes and 'oversized' (let alone spare) anchors add weight, but your ground tackle is your most important insurance.

4. Water: Heavy, but water is 40 cents a gallon and up in the Bahamas. If you have large tankage, why wouldn't you fill up prior to departure?

5. Washer/dryer: Even at 150 pounds, we are considering adding one and not only for convenience. Laundromats in the Bahamas generally charge about $5.00 a load for both washers and dryers and fequently have old equipment that can stain and damage clothing.

Everything in and about boats is a compromise and we have chosen to sacrifice some performance for reasons of comfort and economy.

Brad

Privleoplag · 09-03-2017, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdazey

..

But I agree. While we were planning to ditch the Spledide W/D, Bacchus' comment about its weight has comfirmed that decision even if we have to dismantle it to get it through the door

..
Cheers,

Get rid of the Spledide for a Panda.. 28 lbs.. I move it like it's nothing. Even fits through the head door. Sure, no dry cycle but has like a 3000 rpm spin cycle that about dries everything. Or, you could carry "about" 20 gallons less water, if that's possible.

Hey Folks,
I just used 8 lbs per gallon of water doing the calculations, to keep the math simple, for simple folk like me. I shoulda at least said 1600 lbs "+" of water.. for the more advanced.