Good cat, bad cat…?

[Alueva]

Hi all,
We are new to CF and sailing and very excited to read all the tons of valuable info on here.
In fact, we are so new to it all, we haven’t even got a boat yet! We are currently in the market for a used bluewater catamaran to finally live our long held dream of becoming full time cruisers. The hippie in me always had a thing for Wharram cats (Tiki or Pahi), but now I’m not so sure anymore…I’ve actually never sailed on one! In fact, we’ve never owned a boat before!
We are currently considering pre-owned FP Helia 44, Nautitech 46 Open, Seawind 1260 or similar (very open to other suggestions here!). How would boats like that compare to a Wharram? What are the distinct advantages and disadvantages of a Wharram cat? I guess the ultimate decision is: to Wharram or not to Wharram, that is the question…
Any input very warmly welcome 😊
Thank you, cruisers

[Tupaia]

How hippy are you?



Wharrams are a life style choice. They are certainly seaworthy and blue water capable. They tend to require more maintenance than you would expect but everything can be achieved cheaply and with very limited technical skill required. The other boats on your list are considerably more complicated and cost of ownership will be much higher. You will need professional help with maintenance if your own skill set is not up to it.



You say you haven't owned a boat but what is your sailing experience?

[Alueva]

Hi Tupaia,
Thanks for your reply. Hmmm, how hippie am I? Semi-hippie, I would say. Maybe a bit of a fence sitter �� more of a greenie…

I am handy, can fix a bit of stuff and can get my head around things, but I’m certainly not a pro. Big weakness is electrical stuff. But that can be learned. I am looking for simplicity, functionality and practicality in a boat. I like things to be easy, too…

My experience: limited. I obtained my offshore yacht master years ago, trained at UKSA, but haven’t done a lot of sailing since. Did a couple of delivery jobs as skipper (35ft cat 2/3 of the way around Australia), as crew on a 56ft mono from Fiji to Australia, crewed on a delivery of a 38ft cat from Mackay to the Gold Coast plus a few shorter trips up and down the East Coast. And various boats on the south coast of England during my training. Been a windsurfer and surfer all my life.
I like the idea of the potential for speed in a cat. How do Wharrams generally perform there?

[Tupaia]

Wharram's are great down wind not so good up wind, perhaps Double U might chip in as he circumnavigated on a Wharram.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...+u-175725.html
There are some useful blogs on https://www.wharram.com/

There are other cats that will out perform the production cats on your list for a fraction of the price but with less "luxury".

For example something like Duede a Woods Banshee for sale in NZ
preowned boats from the board of Woods Designs

Or many of the Kelsall cats. Derek Kelsall is now and NZ resident.

[aqfishing]

Your budget?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Alueva

I like the idea of the potential for speed in a cat. How do Wharrams generally perform there?

Cannot speak for the Tiki 38 and above but my Tiki 21 saw 13kts and my Tiki 26 passed a freighter in the English Channel, reckon I was doing 16+kts.. it was a F7 and I had all sail up..
If you go for a Wharram opt for the Tiki's over the Pahi's..

[NPCampbell]

There have been uncountable ocean crossings with production catamarans.

With most of the production boats you will have a history of their shortcomings (i.e. Lagoon bulkheads, osmotic blisters, leaking windows, hatches, etc). With custom built boats it may be tougher for you or a surveyor to identify problems unique to the builder.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

There have been uncountable ocean crossings with production catamarans.

With most of the production boats you will have a history of their shortcomings (i.e. Lagoon bulkheads, osmotic blisters, leaking windows, hatches, etc). With custom built boats it may be tougher for you or a surveyor to identify problems unique to the builder.

Good point!

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

There have been uncountable ocean crossings with production catamarans.

With most of the production boats you will have a history of their shortcomings (i.e. Lagoon bulkheads, osmotic blisters, leaking windows, hatches, etc). With custom built boats it may be tougher for you or a surveyor to identify problems unique to the builder.

If this your experience you need to choose your surveyor more carefully and is a bit of an insult to good surveyors.

In my experience "not so good surveyors" are more likely to be complacent when surveying production boats and miss the less obvious faults whereas a less familiar design will be more likely to focus their attention, on their liability insurance.

A good surveyor should pay attention to the actual condition be it a production vessel or a custom vessel.

I have seen "home" built vessels with an attention to detail that surpasses production boats in every respect. I have also seen some terrible boats both production and custom.

Your comments are especially misguided with regard to Wharrams. There is a very experienced "production" builder Andy Smith in Philippines that produces spectacular examples of the marque. There are also some fairly desperate boats made of shuttering ply languishing in boat yards.

A GOOD surveyor should be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[Alueva]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your invaluable input, you’ve already given us plenty of food for thought. Thanks for sharing ��
I’m impressed with the speed that the smaller Tikis got up to! Love to know more about the performance of the Tiki 46, for sure.
Great to hear about quality cat designers I hadn’t heard of before, like Woods Design in NZ.
I have been in touch with Andy Smith already and also have a Wharram design book on order ����
Our budget depends greatly on how much we’ll end up getting for the house. If all goes well it should be around AU$400,000-AU$500,000 or US$300,000-US$370,000.
I am also acutely aware how naive we still are when it comes to budgeting for annual running and maintenance costs for a catamaran around the 45/46ft size range.
Any input on that, folks?

[double u]

the first of our 3 & 1/3 RTW was on a Wharram Tangaroa (34') & somewhere on cruisersforum I (concisely I think) posted my "summary thoughts" about the boat. So if you bother to search...

[Alueva]

Originally Posted by double u

the first of our 3 & 1/3 RTW was on a Wharram Tangaroa (34') & somewhere on cruisersforum I (concisely I think) posted my "summary thoughts" about the boat. So if you bother to search...

Thanks, Double U,
I’ll bother!

[boatman61]

You might find this guy interesting.. a Tiki 38
https://youtu.be/zz8wBICiLD8

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Alueva

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your invaluable input, you’ve already given us plenty of food for thought. Thanks for sharing ��
I’m impressed with the speed that the smaller Tikis got up to! Love to know more about the performance of the Tiki 46, for sure.
Great to hear about quality cat designers I hadn’t heard of before, like Woods Design in NZ.
I have been in touch with Andy Smith already and also have a Wharram design book on order ����
Our budget depends greatly on how much we’ll end up getting for the house. If all goes well it should be around AU$400,000-AU$500,000 or US$300,000-US$370,000.
I am also acutely aware how naive we still are when it comes to budgeting for annual running and maintenance costs for a catamaran around the 45/46ft size range.
Any input on that, folks?

A 45-46 foot cat is a lot of boat, are you sure you need that much ? How many people are you hauling ? A 38-40 foot has a lot of room and much less expensive in so many ways.

[Alueva]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

A 45-46 foot cat is a lot of boat, are you sure you need that much ? How many people are you hauling ? A 38-40 foot has a lot of room and much less expensive in so many ways.

That’s a fair question: what’s the right size? We are a patchwork family, we need room for us two oldies and four teenagers (and plenty of surfboards). The kids will be coming and going, most likely in a three months on and off rhythm. I was also thinking by maximising length we would increase speed, stability and safety.
I wonder what the difference is in running costs between a 40ft and a 46ft catamaran?