Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-07-2021, 00:24   #1
Registered User
 
Alueva's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Australia/Czech Republic
Boat: Looking for our boat
Posts: 11
Good cat, bad cat…?

Hi all,
We are new to CF and sailing and very excited to read all the tons of valuable info on here.
In fact, we are so new to it all, we haven’t even got a boat yet! We are currently in the market for a used bluewater catamaran to finally live our long held dream of becoming full time cruisers. The hippie in me always had a thing for Wharram cats (Tiki or Pahi), but now I’m not so sure anymore…I’ve actually never sailed on one! In fact, we’ve never owned a boat before!
We are currently considering pre-owned FP Helia 44, Nautitech 46 Open, Seawind 1260 or similar (very open to other suggestions here!). How would boats like that compare to a Wharram? What are the distinct advantages and disadvantages of a Wharram cat? I guess the ultimate decision is: to Wharram or not to Wharram, that is the question…
Any input very warmly welcome 😊
Thank you, cruisers
Alueva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 01:16   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 1,182
Images: 2
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

How hippy are you?



Wharrams are a life style choice. They are certainly seaworthy and blue water capable. They tend to require more maintenance than you would expect but everything can be achieved cheaply and with very limited technical skill required. The other boats on your list are considerably more complicated and cost of ownership will be much higher. You will need professional help with maintenance if your own skill set is not up to it.



You say you haven't owned a boat but what is your sailing experience?
Tupaia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 08:55   #3
Registered User
 
Alueva's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Australia/Czech Republic
Boat: Looking for our boat
Posts: 11
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Hi Tupaia,
Thanks for your reply. Hmmm, how hippie am I? Semi-hippie, I would say. Maybe a bit of a fence sitter �� more of a greenie…

I am handy, can fix a bit of stuff and can get my head around things, but I’m certainly not a pro. Big weakness is electrical stuff. But that can be learned. I am looking for simplicity, functionality and practicality in a boat. I like things to be easy, too…

My experience: limited. I obtained my offshore yacht master years ago, trained at UKSA, but haven’t done a lot of sailing since. Did a couple of delivery jobs as skipper (35ft cat 2/3 of the way around Australia), as crew on a 56ft mono from Fiji to Australia, crewed on a delivery of a 38ft cat from Mackay to the Gold Coast plus a few shorter trips up and down the East Coast. And various boats on the south coast of England during my training. Been a windsurfer and surfer all my life.
I like the idea of the potential for speed in a cat. How do Wharrams generally perform there?
Alueva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 11:09   #4
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 1,182
Images: 2
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Wharram's are great down wind not so good up wind, perhaps Double U might chip in as he circumnavigated on a Wharram.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...+u-175725.html
There are some useful blogs on https://www.wharram.com/

There are other cats that will out perform the production cats on your list for a fraction of the price but with less "luxury".

For example something like Duede a Woods Banshee for sale in NZ
preowned boats from the board of Woods Designs

Or many of the Kelsall cats. Derek Kelsall is now and NZ resident.
Tupaia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 11:58   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: South Africa
Boat: Leopard 40
Posts: 317
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Your budget?
aqfishing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 12:02   #6
Deep Water Deliveries
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 27,493
Images: 2
pirate Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alueva View Post
I like the idea of the potential for speed in a cat. How do Wharrams generally perform there?
Cannot speak for the Tiki 38 and above but my Tiki 21 saw 13kts and my Tiki 26 passed a freighter in the English Channel, reckon I was doing 16+kts.. it was a F7 and I had all sail up..
If you go for a Wharram opt for the Tiki's over the Pahi's..
__________________


Born to be Wild.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 12:03   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 389
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

There have been uncountable ocean crossings with production catamarans.

With most of the production boats you will have a history of their shortcomings (i.e. Lagoon bulkheads, osmotic blisters, leaking windows, hatches, etc). With custom built boats it may be tougher for you or a surveyor to identify problems unique to the builder.
NPCampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 12:23   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: South Africa
Boat: Leopard 40
Posts: 317
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPCampbell View Post
There have been uncountable ocean crossings with production catamarans.

With most of the production boats you will have a history of their shortcomings (i.e. Lagoon bulkheads, osmotic blisters, leaking windows, hatches, etc). With custom built boats it may be tougher for you or a surveyor to identify problems unique to the builder.
Good point!
aqfishing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 14:43   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 1,182
Images: 2
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPCampbell View Post
There have been uncountable ocean crossings with production catamarans.

With most of the production boats you will have a history of their shortcomings (i.e. Lagoon bulkheads, osmotic blisters, leaking windows, hatches, etc). With custom built boats it may be tougher for you or a surveyor to identify problems unique to the builder.
If this your experience you need to choose your surveyor more carefully and is a bit of an insult to good surveyors.

In my experience "not so good surveyors" are more likely to be complacent when surveying production boats and miss the less obvious faults whereas a less familiar design will be more likely to focus their attention, on their liability insurance.

A good surveyor should pay attention to the actual condition be it a production vessel or a custom vessel.

I have seen "home" built vessels with an attention to detail that surpasses production boats in every respect. I have also seen some terrible boats both production and custom.

Your comments are especially misguided with regard to Wharrams. There is a very experienced "production" builder Andy Smith in Philippines that produces spectacular examples of the marque. There are also some fairly desperate boats made of shuttering ply languishing in boat yards.

A GOOD surveyor should be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Tupaia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 20:23   #10
Registered User
 
Alueva's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Australia/Czech Republic
Boat: Looking for our boat
Posts: 11
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your invaluable input, you’ve already given us plenty of food for thought. Thanks for sharing ��
I’m impressed with the speed that the smaller Tikis got up to! Love to know more about the performance of the Tiki 46, for sure.
Great to hear about quality cat designers I hadn’t heard of before, like Woods Design in NZ.
I have been in touch with Andy Smith already and also have a Wharram design book on order ����
Our budget depends greatly on how much we’ll end up getting for the house. If all goes well it should be around AU$400,000-AU$500,000 or US$300,000-US$370,000.
I am also acutely aware how naive we still are when it comes to budgeting for annual running and maintenance costs for a catamaran around the 45/46ft size range.
Any input on that, folks?
Alueva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2021, 22:17   #11
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: forest city
Boat: no boat any more
Posts: 2,110
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

the first of our 3 & 1/3 RTW was on a Wharram Tangaroa (34') & somewhere on cruisersforum I (concisely I think) posted my "summary thoughts" about the boat. So if you bother to search...
__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2021, 00:36   #12
Registered User
 
Alueva's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Australia/Czech Republic
Boat: Looking for our boat
Posts: 11
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by double u View Post
the first of our 3 & 1/3 RTW was on a Wharram Tangaroa (34') & somewhere on cruisersforum I (concisely I think) posted my "summary thoughts" about the boat. So if you bother to search...
Thanks, Double U,
I’ll bother!
Alueva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2021, 04:03   #13
Deep Water Deliveries
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 27,493
Images: 2
pirate Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

You might find this guy interesting.. a Tiki 38
https://youtu.be/zz8wBICiLD8
__________________


Born to be Wild.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2021, 08:18   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Franklin, Ohio
Boat: Homebuilt schooner 64 ft. Sold.
Posts: 1,383
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alueva View Post
Hi everyone, thank you so much for your invaluable input, you’ve already given us plenty of food for thought. Thanks for sharing ��
I’m impressed with the speed that the smaller Tikis got up to! Love to know more about the performance of the Tiki 46, for sure.
Great to hear about quality cat designers I hadn’t heard of before, like Woods Design in NZ.
I have been in touch with Andy Smith already and also have a Wharram design book on order ����
Our budget depends greatly on how much we’ll end up getting for the house. If all goes well it should be around AU$400,000-AU$500,000 or US$300,000-US$370,000.
I am also acutely aware how naive we still are when it comes to budgeting for annual running and maintenance costs for a catamaran around the 45/46ft size range.
Any input on that, folks?
A 45-46 foot cat is a lot of boat, are you sure you need that much ? How many people are you hauling ? A 38-40 foot has a lot of room and much less expensive in so many ways.
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2021, 09:36   #15
Registered User
 
Alueva's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Australia/Czech Republic
Boat: Looking for our boat
Posts: 11
Re: Good cat, bad cat…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
A 45-46 foot cat is a lot of boat, are you sure you need that much ? How many people are you hauling ? A 38-40 foot has a lot of room and much less expensive in so many ways.
That’s a fair question: what’s the right size? We are a patchwork family, we need room for us two oldies and four teenagers (and plenty of surfboards). The kids will be coming and going, most likely in a three months on and off rhythm. I was also thinking by maximising length we would increase speed, stability and safety.
I wonder what the difference is in running costs between a 40ft and a 46ft catamaran?
Alueva is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good Food, Good Flavor, Good Value, Good Packaging Steadman Uhlich Provisioning: Food & Drink 23 10-08-2018 07:19
Bad People Do Bad Things moto General Sailing Forum 72 20-12-2011 09:11
Dented Mast- How Bad Is Bad? Zednotzee Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 10 25-01-2010 17:22
Home Depot Plumbing fittings - just bad or really bad? neelie Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 34 11-11-2008 18:21

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.