Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

[geoleo]

RIGHTO! theres a vast difference between rhunbline miles @ 200 miles a day and ground covered to get 200 miles---Therefore I say if you can average 5kn=5 5/8 mph you are doing great Thats 135 miles a day rhumbline. The most i ever covered in 18 years in my 65 Garden 35 ketch was 175 miles with help from gulf loop current

[geoleo]

that article is talking 200 km per day

[Therapy]

Little kid on the block here.

11.2 knots.

wind around 20 knots 110º.

One reef in main, half a jib.

Our first time out far (in a number of years) and a little skeered......

[Palarran]

Some days I need a valium. Anyone else need one today?

[Intentional Drifter]

St. Francis 44; 14 to 16 through the water, surfing. We had a TS on our tail with winds gusting in the low 40's and big swells. 3 reefs in main and genoa rolled in to about 8 feet showing. Didn't like it, not at all. Not fun.

Personally, I'm comfortable with the boat at 11 knots; more than that requires 100% concentration and that just isn't so much fun.

Best day overall, 215 nm (and it wasn't that day).

ID

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Some days I need a valium. Anyone else need one today?

Take a bottle

[Factor]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

20Knots X24hours =480 km =540 'miles' so why only 200 miles???? I have a friend with a 48 mono ketch who always gets 200 miles a day in Caribbean cruising so your hot rod doesnt impress

20 knots for 24 hours would equal 480 NM not Km.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

20Knots X24hours =480 km =540 'miles' so why only 200 miles???? I have a friend with a 48 mono ketch who always gets 200 miles a day in Caribbean cruising so your hot rod doesnt impress

Seems to be a comprehension problem here.

The poster you're referring to said 20 knots SURFING. Can you surf 24 hours a day?

BTW a knot is a nautical mile per hour, not a kilometer per hour.

And your mate who ALWAYS gets 200 miles a day - how much of that does he sail? I seriously doubt he SAILS 200 miles per day every day.

(Are you talking about nautical or statute miles here? Everybody else is talking nautical miles.)

On an Oram 39C we sailed across the Gulf of Carpenteria averaging 8 knots over 350 (nautical) miles.

That included reducing sail to just a part furled headsail at night - the headsail was torn at the luff so we had to keep a couple of turns round the furler. In the daytime we'd fly the screecher. We actually slowed down to avoid arriving in pitch darkness too.

I haven't done any 24 hour runs in our boat yet. So far we've always got where we're going quicker than that.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I haven't done any 24 hour runs in our boat yet. So far we've always got where we're going quicker than that.

LOL.....

[Mark Johnson]

We have a 34' Searunner Tri. (Does that count?) We regularly go 9 or 10 on a really good day, but we had one or two incredible sleigh rides. We had been getting really beat up at anchor, by mid 30s wind off the E coast of Andros, Bahamas for a month and just decided to head back to our marina in the Keys. We beat our way to Cat & Gun Cays to wait for better weather, which was NOT coming in the foreseeable future. The next morning around 7:00 AM, we headed out into the Gulf Stream with NE winds in the high 30s. The seas were 15' and up, but not really breaking... Our destination of Byscane Bay, put the wind on the boat's flank, or we wouldn't have stuck our neck out! We kept speeds over 13 knots all the way across! The seas were so large, that I would just turn away and not look, then just as I thought it would break ON us, we surfed the face of it. We had the hook down in Byscane Bay by 1:00 that afternoon!

The next morning was a repeat of the previous day's weather, except now it was down wind, and in much more civilized Hawk Channel. Under twin jibs, we were in Boot Key Harbor by mid afternoon. (double digits all the way) Truthfully, I wanted to put up the spinnaker, but in 35 knots of wind, my wife threatened to mutiny if I did! Admittedly, these were exceptionally perfect daysails, my best ever!

On real ocean passages... We made a mostly windward passage from Georgetown Bahamas, nonstop to Boquerone Puerto Rico, in 5 days. (yes, we were beat up a bit.) And a year later, coming back... Trinidad to the Beaufort NC inlet in three legs. Two days to Dominica, Two days to Culebra PR, and 8 days to the Beaufort NC inlet. (12 sea days total) Not screaming, just a respectable good daily average...
Mark

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

I have a friend with a 48 mono ketch who always gets 200 miles a day in Caribbean cruising

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

Its a Soverel 48 ketch from 1982

Bar talk may not be the most reliable source of performance data... Just saying...

For offshore passages I think the yacht trackers at The Pacific Seafarer's Net are useful. They provide an interesting sample of folks doing serious passages.

Tom.

[LoranSea]

I must admit that I'm a bit puzzled by what read about how fast production cats are.
From their specs I doubt that they sail faster than 15 knots. Of course, if the sea is flat like a miror and wind speed is over 25 knots on a beam reach they might reach the teens but really when does it happens ? I'm a pro skipper, i've chartered and delivered many cats and their average speed is closer to 6 knots (which is not that bad). They are particularly doing poorly upwind and I had to power most of the time if I wanted to keep the schedule. What is the hull length to beam ratio at LWL ? what is sail area to weigth ratio ?
Remember a race boat has a 30 sqm/ton ratio a production cat, even a Gunboat has 10sqm/t ! I doubt these production cats do over ten knots of average on a passage making. I owned a F28 (30 sqm/t) for six years on passage making planning I would forecast an average 5.5 to 6 knots ! But I've sailed up to 19 knots with thirdreef big ocean swell and force 6 downwind ! And yes I got cold feet ! I would reach the teens with force 4 but I would still do 5 knots in less than 8 knots of wind where the production is forced to power...
The fastest cat i sailed was GQ a daycharter cat in cap Town. Done 23.5 knots one the fastest runs on that boat.
I've sailed a Catana 39 (15 sqm/t) and reached the teen but my average after three weeks of charter was less than 7 knots.
So guys are you kidding yourselves with production cats speed? or is it hard to realise that if you want a fast boat you have to trust Dick "multihull sorcerer" Newick's equation : fast, comfortable, cheap, you have to pick two out of three. So if your condomaran is cheap, I bet it is slow ! And even if you pay the price, it might not be that fast !
So please, when chatting about production cats please make sure to quote sail area to msc displacement ratio thank you. We'll have a reliable number to compare to..

[LoranSea]

I must add that my fastest ocean passage was done on a Dufour 45 monohull. Average speed was just 7 knots for a canaries to Marie-galante passage. We would put the spinnaker up with the sunrise and down with the sunset too. So it took us just 15 days. And guess what an Outremer 50 did it in just a little less than 14 days ! So their average was certainly around 7.7 knots ! And we are talking of yachts over 40 feet... running downwind most of the way !

[Intentional Drifter]

Hi, LoranSea, and welcome to CF.

If the question is average speed, I agree with you. For planning purposes, I use 6 knots for the average. If we get 7, I'm happy; 8, I'm even happier. More than 8, I'm ecstatic.

Of course the original poster was asking for the fastest speeds seen. We've had some extended runs in the low to mid teens. While I know the boat could go even faster, I have no wish to do so simply because the risk of breaking expensive bits goes way up. Also, the demands on us for being 100% on top of it, all the time, just don't allow us to be relaxed and comfortable. We're into cruising, not racing.

As for upwind performance, I'll just say that is not the forte of most production cats, mine included.

ID

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by LoranSea

... you have to trust Dick "multihull sorcerer" Newick's equation : fast, comfortable, cheap, you have to pick two out of three. ...

So please, when chatting about production cats please make sure to quote sail area to msc displacement ratio thank you. We'll have a reliable number to compare to..

Good points. I'm never quite sure when we have these kinds of discussions what the "speed" is that people are talking about. It would be nice to have comparable numbers like SA/disp. That way we could at least get a pretty good idea of a boat's potential speeds. Sadly, published displacement numbers are often pure lies and even the sail area numbers are inconsistently reported. And then when talking about expected speeds over some time the human factors are very significant. Weather, routing choices, attitude, skill and engine use are often more significant factors in passage times than the potential sailing performance of the yachts. My passage times would be a lot shorter if Franck Cammas was driving and Stan Honey was routing. That would reflect the boat's actual performance potential better but then again, they wouldn't be my passage times.

Tom.