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Old 28-11-2019, 13:44   #61
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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If you are saying when standing at the mast of a cat the lifelines are at thigh height I defy you to show me a Lagoon, Neel, FP or many others that meet this claim.
Lagoons I have sailed the life lines are below the level of my feet at the mast.
Wharrams.. Yes, the mast is on the beam at deck level.
On deck level they are pretty much equal.
If you read my post, you'd have seen I referred to boats I owned. I don't own a Lagoon, Neel, FP etc. My mast is stepped on deck. Mast work is done from deck level. Some mono's are also flush decked, although from what I've seen that's a small minority. Certainly mine wasnt.
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Old 28-11-2019, 14:10   #62
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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As someone with a lot of time on both types of vessel here are my thoughts.

In cabin: monohull have more hand holds below decks and fiddles on working countertops. Cats are missing both. Infuriating is that cats don’t even provide hardwood handholds for the stairs. Instead you must hold onto the ends of countertops.

Correction: "SOME" cats.


Fiddles are less needed on cats. That said only a section at the front of my countertop is without a fiddle (and it has grab rail above the fiddle where there is one)



My cat has hardwood handrails for the stairs and several grab rails around the saloon and galley. I never have to hold onto the ends of countertops.
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Old 28-11-2019, 14:16   #63
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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I have an "H" configuration of jack lines.

SNIP

IMO any boat crewed by a couple should be configured so that it can be safely single handed, including being reefed by either person, this being the norm on passage when one or the other may be asleep.
I have an "X" configuration; starboard aft cleat to mast base to port forward cleat and aft port cleat to mast to starboard forward cleat. My tether has 3 foot and 6 foot snap shackles but I almost always use the 3 foot one. One other thing not mentioned is that if I am tethered in I am seldom standing, rather I am crawling on all fours. Have to give a shout out to my Spinlock Kneepads, both for multi and mono use.

Since I am almost always single handing my boat is configured that way.

Couple of things that may be boat specific to my Seawind. Since cats have two hulls that are often narrow compared to monos there is not usually a lot of 'open space' below decks. In the salon and cockpit there is often more open space than on a mono and not always obvious places for handholds. But I can grab the hard top roof and get from one steering station to the other; and often I find myself grabbling one or more of the lines in the mainsheet/pulley system for a handhold, or the two lines I use as a preventer.

One thing a lot of cat sailors do is somewhat alter course while taking a hit in boat speed to get a much more kindly sea motion. Since as a rule cats are faster than monos this is often not as much of a hit as it may seem. Maybe just as important is not just crew safety while on a passage but how much more comfortable a cat often is at anchor or on a ball. I have been anchored on a reef dive with a mono when a big power boat threw up a big wake that literally threw books off the shelf on a mono close to me while all that happened on my boat was several friends gave the power boat a middle finger salute. I have always slept (recovered from a hard day of sailing) on my cat than I ever did on any mono smaller than 50 feet or so.

One thing to keep in mind is how much variability exists in boat design. I have seen several high performance cats with dagger/center boards that can go to windward with most any monohull. My Seawind has handholds on top of the salon roof that makes going forward easy and I have been on monos that lack handholds there.

One of my pet peeves is visibility. I have sailed on many monohulls where the wheel is way back close to the stern which means the whole boat is in the field of view of the helmsman, on my Seawind I can easily see through the open salon for good viz ahead and also kinda stand up and sit on the hull deck for an even better view. But I have also been on condomarans where the salon was like a brick wall that obscured lots of the forward viz. I view poor visibility as a huge safety issue.
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Old 28-11-2019, 14:17   #64
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

[QUOTE=StuM;3025377][QUOTE=Snore;3025011]As someone with a lot of time on both types of vessel here are my thoughts.

In cabin: monohull have more hand holds below decks and fiddles on working countertops. Cats are missing both. Infuriating is that cats donít even provide hardwood handholds for the stairs. Instead you must hold onto the ends of countertops.
Quote:


Correction: "SOME" cats.


Fiddles are less needed on cats. That said only a section at the front of my countertop is without a fiddle (and it has grab rail above the fiddle)



My cat has hardwood handrails for the stairs and several grab rails around the saloon and galley. I never have to hold onto the ends of countertops.

Wow! I gotta get on a Maestro. Sounds like a nice cat.
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Old 28-11-2019, 14:48   #65
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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If you are saying when standing at the mast of a cat the lifelines are at thigh height I defy you to show me a Lagoon, Neel, FP or many others that meet this claim.
Lagoons I have sailed the life lines are below the level of my feet at the mast.
Wharrams.. Yes, the mast is on the beam at deck level.
On deck level they are pretty much equal.
I could show you some Bob Oram designs, Gunboats etc, where, when at the mast, the DECK is at roughly thigh height. And going forward is a matter of walking from the aft cockpit through the saloon and out a door.

Generalizations don't cover everything.
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Old 28-11-2019, 15:16   #66
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pirate Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

They are tho' you must admit the exception to the norm..
How many members of CF own a Gunboat compared to Lagoon, FP's etc.. even Outremers are like this.
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Old 28-11-2019, 15:20   #67
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

On our cat the lifelines are not used for anything other than hanging fenders - the decks are wide enough and the lifelines a long way away. Our cabin top has handrails from the aft edge forward, but unfortunately not in the curve towards the mast so that part of the journey is a bit exposed. If not clipped on you time your two steps from cabin top handrail to the mast. If clipped in you hold your tether tight to the jackline and use that for support.

At the mast the lifelines are 1.5-2.5 m away at all times so totally not relevant. The jackline goes around the mast and there are diamonds that are available as hard points to clip to. Even in 45 knots and 6m waves the mast position is stable enough (this is very near to the point of rotation) that you can use two hands for a task.

In the cockpit and the salon the movement is very, very rarely such that you have to have a handhold. Although unlike more modern boats our older cat does not have vast wide open spaces and we do have fiddles on all flat surfaces, so things to hold onto are available. Similarly, our hulls are narrow and have a couple of longitudinal shelves so no additional handholds required.

For monohull sailors who have not been on a cat, it is totally different and inherently safer.

The first big difference is that going forward to the mast or the forestay is not an issue even in very rough weather. At some point the up and down and the wind is violent enough that being up and about on deck is not easy, but on a cat the proximate danger of going overboard does not exist.

The second big difference is that on cats the boom is generally not an issue. It is up high, there is a bimini roof between you and it, and the wide sheeting controls the boom even when well eased. Boom brakes are not required. Unexpected gybes do not sweep the deck. Preventers are used to stop flopping, but aren't needed to prevent the gybe.

The third big difference is safely leaving the cabin to enter the cockpit. Cat - step through a sliding door. Mono - stand on a ladder, connect to a tether, check for waves and boom activity, lift yourself way up high to get over the wash boards, then finally into the cockpit.
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Old 28-11-2019, 15:29   #68
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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On our cat the lifelines are not used for anything other than hanging fenders -
On any boat I am skippering, the lifelines are NEVER used for hanging fenders.
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Old 28-11-2019, 15:33   #69
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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On any boat I am skippering, the lifelines are NEVER used for hanging fenders.

Neither on our boat unless for temporary placement before knowing where theyíre actually needed. Then we tie them around stanchion bases or cleats. I was making the point that we donít use and donít really need lifelines on our boat.
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Old 28-11-2019, 15:50   #70
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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I was making the point that we donít use and donít really need lifelines on our boat.
Would agree lifelines on a cat are largely psychological. Having never held onto them I can confirm that you still feel vulnerable without them there, for example when chocked up on the hard with stanchions removed.
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Old 28-11-2019, 18:11   #71
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

Had no lifelines on tve Wharram & never missed them.
@fatigue: sailing was much less fatigueing on the Wharram (but often v e r y wet) than o our Elan these days...could it have something to do with us being in our 20ies then - & in our 60ies now
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Old 28-11-2019, 22:50   #72
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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Neither on our boat unless for temporary placement before knowing where theyíre actually needed. Then we tie them around stanchion bases or cleats. I was making the point that we donít use and donít really need lifelines on our boat.
Lifelines are great. For laundry.
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Old 28-11-2019, 22:53   #73
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

I've actually hung fenders from lifelines for my entire 30 year boat ownership history. It's how I was taught.

Did something change recently?
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Old 28-11-2019, 22:59   #74
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull Crew Safety

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I've actually hung fenders from lifelines for my entire 30 year boat ownership history. It's how I was taught.

Did something change recently?
Me too! Don't really know where else I would hang them . (While docked.)
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Old 29-11-2019, 05:34   #75
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Likewise.. Once attached they can be slid to suit without having to untie between stanchions..
If they are meant to take your body weight the weight of a fender hanging straight down is nothing.
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