Catamaran collides with object off DR

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Interesting that they were rescued due to their personal EPIRBs; it seems that a boat EPIRB was not present, or at least not activated. I’m glad it worked out for them, but I still don’t really understand why sailors buy PLBs with satellite rather than AIS functionality. In a MOB situation I would want my boat to be able to respond, not a rescue organisation that could be 1000s of miles away. The EPIRB PLBs are designed for land and aircraft rescue, not for MOB situations.

The incident took place in April 2022, and its posting seems to be one of a series of testimonials for ACR PLBs. Another testimonial in the series comes from the boat that burned up due to a lithium battery fire on the way to Isla Mujeres. The only real difference I know of between a PLB and an EBIRB is the EPIRB battery lasts twice as long and the unit costs twice as much.

I plotted the position given for the cat incident and it was in the middle of Grand Turk Island. That is probably in error, because the position given for the other incident was in fact in the ocean on the way to Isla Mujeres.

[Wilyum]

lots of rocks on the Silver Bank

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Best guess, a semi submerged container. Often wondered when someone will bring out some sort of forward looking sonar that can detect large floating objects ahead. Don’t think the current ones can do that, they seem more for seabed/reefs etc. Shows how important an EPIRB is.

Ah, yes, "Must be a container."

Everybody's favorite answer to this. Despite the fact that this is a route with multiple reefs, large and small, that rise from abyssal depths to the surface with no warning. AND this is a popular spot for breeding humpbacks this time of year. I guarantee you that there are 1000 times more humpback whales in this area than floating containers. We have had some scary close encounters with these whales along this very route. Ever had a 15 m whale follow you so close you could count barnacles? We have, right off Navidad Bank.

I have been sailing the ocean for a very long time, and have NEVER seen a container adrift. If I am not on a boat on the ocean I am almost always close to the ocean or a beach, and I have NEVER seen a container wash ashore. On remote islands and reefs I have seen: Derelict boats; Huge trees; Telephone poles; FADs; Ship sized mooring buoys, and many other things that could sink a boat like this, but NEVER a shipping container, whole or partial. The statistics say that a container is about the LEAST likely of the things out there that might have caused this.

Yet still every time a boat hits an UNIDENTIFIED object the pundits appear, "It must be a container!" "Another container!" "Something must be done about the menace of containers!" Baloney.

Seriously people, of all the many things out there on the ocean to be concerned about, and scared of, a container adrift should be so far down your list as to vanish. No matter what the armchair pundits say.

[slipaway]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Interesting that they were rescued due to their personal EPIRBs; it seems that a boat EPIRB was not present, or at least not activated. I’m glad it worked out for them, but I still don’t really understand why sailors buy PLBs with satellite rather than AIS functionality. In a MOB situation I would want my boat to be able to respond, not a rescue organisation that could be 1000s of miles away. The EPIRB PLBs are designed for land and aircraft rescue, not for MOB situations.

This is exactly why sailors "buy PLBs".... it allowed the CG to alert the transiting CG aircraft and divert it to the exact position of the PLB! Sure, an AIS beacon MIGHT have alerted a nearby vessel IF it had an AIS receiver that actually picked up the signal from an antenna height of about 3' and then decided to check it out. This was not a MOB situation where an AIS beacon could alert the vessel someone fell off of. Ideally have both, but in this case the PLB turned out to save the day.

Just a note re. terminology: all PLBs transmit to satellites; they also provide a GPS position and aircraft homing capability. An EPIRB works the same as a PLB but the battery lasts longer. EPIRBs were developed for maritime use (aircraft carry ELTs- emergency locating transmitter). While the PLB may have initially been developed for land use (there is some dispute over that), this case shows how it works in the marine environment. There is no "AIS PLB"- there are AIS beacons intended for MOB situations. As of now, in the US anyway, there is no combined AIS/PLB unit.

[shimari]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Very, very sad. The Sea.AI system (formerly OSCAR) can detect and warn for containers https://sea.ai/category/offshore/. Depending on your speed and proximity to your helm it may give you enough warning (a few hundred metres) to change course.

Interesting that they were rescued due to their personal EPIRBs; it seems that a boat EPIRB was not present, or at least not activated. I’m glad it worked out for them, but I still don’t really understand why sailors buy PLBs with satellite rather than AIS functionality. In a MOB situation I would want my boat to be able to respond, not a rescue organisation that could be 1000s of miles away. The EPIRB PLBs are designed for land and aircraft rescue, not for MOB situations.

You can have both soon in a PLB.

https://www.acrartex.com/news/mobile...ocator-beacon/

"The ACR Electronics GlobalFix V5 EPIRB and ResQLink AIS PLB[1] both feature integrated AIS (Automatic Identification System) to increase the speed of location and aid, and compatibility with Return Link Service (RLS) alerting."

[slipaway]

Originally Posted by shimari

You can have both soon in a PLB.

https://www.acrartex.com/news/mobile...ocator-beacon/

"The ACR Electronics GlobalFix V5 EPIRB and ResQLink AIS PLB[1] both feature integrated AIS (Automatic Identification System) to increase the speed of location and aid, and compatibility with Return Link Service (RLS) alerting."

The problem is these are not licensed for use or sale in the US:

"This device has not yet been authorized as required by the Rules of the FCC and does not comply with the requirements of RED (Radio Equipment Directive). This device is not, and may not be offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased until such authorization is obtained."

If they can get FCC approval, these will end the PLB vs AIS controversies!

[Tin Tin]

AIS signals can be picked up by low flying satellites, see marinetraffic.com they pick up vessels in the middle of the ocean, you just have to pay to identify them. The last AIS signal from this boat "Sweet Caroline"was recorded on VHF AIS in Turks and Caicos on 19 April 2022 just north of Grand Turk with a course of 116 degrees, that would take them close to the Silver Banks especially if there is a NE wind with leeway of say 10 degrees.


There is a reference to the incident saying the life raft was picked up 37miles SE of Grand Turk which would put it at around the NE Breakers of Mouchor Bank.https://caribbean.loopnews.com/conte...rks-and-caicos

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Ah, yes, "Must be a container."

Everybody's favorite answer to this. Despite the fact that this is a route with multiple reefs, large and small, that rise from abyssal depths to the surface with no warning. AND this is a popular spot for breeding humpbacks this time of year. I guarantee you that there are 1000 times more humpback whales in this area than floating containers. We have had some scary close encounters with these whales along this very route. Ever had a 15 m whale follow you so close you could count barnacles? We have, right off Navidad Bank.

I have been sailing the ocean for a very long time, and have NEVER seen a container adrift. If I am not on a boat on the ocean I am almost always close to the ocean or a beach, and I have NEVER seen a container wash ashore. On remote islands and reefs I have seen: Derelict boats; Huge trees; Telephone poles; FADs; Ship sized mooring buoys, and many other things that could sink a boat like this, but NEVER a shipping container, whole or partial. The statistics say that a container is about the LEAST likely of the things out there that might have caused this.

Yet still every time a boat hits an UNIDENTIFIED object the pundits appear, "It must be a container!" "Another container!" "Something must be done about the menace of containers!" Baloney.

Seriously people, of all the many things out there on the ocean to be concerned about, and scared of, a container adrift should be so far down your list as to vanish. No matter what the armchair pundits say.

cheers,

[Rumrace]

The slight on monohulls was funny. It’s really up to the architect. The Andrea Dorea took 11 hours to sink. The Empresses of Ireland with her grand stair cases poured water in taking more to their death than the titanic.
Off Peele Island a sailboat ripped the side of the hull open and abandoned the boat.
Divers went to the last way point not boat A month later it’s mast showed up heading for Buffalo. Lake Erie has a wreck at 211’. Has a bunch in a row behind it and the sailboat never sank to get hung up on one. Lake Erie is shallow but it has a nice deep channel down the middle.

[slipaway]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

AIS signals can be picked up by low flying satellites, see marinetraffic.com they pick up vessels in the middle of the ocean, you just have to pay to identify them.
[/url]

There is increasing interest in the use of satellite AIS for search & rescue. Tests have shown that an AIS signal transmitted by a floating test "Search and Rescue Transmitter -SART) can be picked up by satellites. It is yet to be seen if the MOB AIS beacons will function in the same way. So far a smy research has determined, no MOB AIS beacon on the market is currently advertising any satellite reception capability.

An AIS signal being transmitted by nearby vessels & picked up by satellite can also be used by SAR authorities to divert the vessel to the position of a known SAR incident, similar to the way the USCG AMVER system has worked for years.

The use of AIS for SAR is not yet well established (as is the SARSAT-COSPAS system used by PLBs and EPIRBs) but it appears to be something being looked into very seriously.

[qwerme]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Interesting story from last week, wonder what they hit.



https://www.acrartex.com/survivor-st...e-puerto-rico/

Probably another upside down Catamaran LOL

[Sky2sail]

Cat meets Mouchor Shoals.... Well charted and directly in the path from T&C to PR. Says SHOAL ROCKY HEADS, CORAL REEF and ROCKS AWASH. I'd tend to believe it. Side stepped it by 5 NM at night on a delivery. Crazy owner wanted to go direct. Nope. This was my believed outcome. Silver Banks also looked like something to avoid too....

[lestersails]

Isn't it a little bit odd that the GPS coordinates of the EPIRB call are not part of the story?

[marcvilleneuve]

Looking at the map (Navionics) they were on the Saba Bank that says ''AERA TO BE AVOIDED''. Did they really look at the map when planning this?
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...%7DaliBlc%60aK

[Snore]

Originally Posted by marcvilleneuve

Looking at the map (Navionics) they were on the Saba Bank that says ''AERA TO BE AVOIDED''. Did they really look at the map when planning this?
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...%7DaliBlc%60aK

Perhaps a chart reading seminar is needed.

One needs to zoom in to see that the "Area to be avoided" comment relates to the fact that it is an environmentally sensitive area. There is adequate water to run a recreational vessel there.