Attaching a Bridle or Snubber to Anchor Line

[ggray]

Originally Posted by YOGAO

There is a bit of concern with twisting the bridle and the rode, which is a benefit of having chain rode and then using a bridle that has a swivel. Do you have a swivel on the anchor?

BTW, Welcome to CF!

Fair Winds,
Mike

Hi Mike,
Not sure I follow the purpose of a swivel on the bridle. With the tail of the chain still attached to (actually, located within) the boat, what swiveling can actually occur ? If the bridle attached to the bitter end, that would be different.

[lancelot9898]

I've been using a Klemheist knot attached to the rode be it chain or nylon rode and then make up a bridle with an alpine butterfly centered on the bridle. A shackle is attached to the loop of the alpine butterfly to the Klemheist loop. The bridle seems to help limit the hunting at anchor provided the rudder is locked.

One comment about the bobstay attachment point. Years ago I wanted to use that point as an attachment point for the anchor system since it was low down at the water line and it also was a strong point in the hull. However I could not justify that point since the backing plate was not beefy enough to warrent a force in another direction. ie. The bobstay exerts a force in more of a vertical direction whereas at anchor that force will have a more downward pull.

[sandy daugherty]

There is a bit of fine tuning yet to be done. Diffeerent models of cat react differently to the effects of wind and tide, and you will need to experiment a bit with the bridle idea. The first adjustment is the length of the bridle sides. Greater length is better for lower winds to reduce anchor sailing. The location and size of a bimini, and whether or not you have side curtains will have an effect. I discovered that hanging the back flap without the side curtains really screwed things up. It acted like a sail with the least amount of cross wind, setting the cat merrily on her way to the other side of the rode radius!
Some monohulls set specialty wind vane sails on their backstay to stay oriented to weather; something like that could work on a cat too.

[YOGAO]

Sorry if my earlier reply left you with an incomplete picture.

Our bridle has a swivel in the middle; attached to it is a chain hook. The legs of our bridle are fairly short as we have a set of bobstays for the screacher pole that the bridle fits inside of.

After dropping the anchor, we attach the hook to a link on the chain, then let out a loop of chain so that the bridle takes the strain.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[ggray]

That's the same as my set up, but I have no swivel. I still can't see how the swivel would be able to rotate without the rest of the chain wrapping around the bridle just above the swivel.
Don't mean to be argumentative, just curious.

Originally Posted by YOGAO

Sorry if my earlier reply left you with an incomplete picture.

Our bridle has a swivel in the middle; attached to it is a chain hook. The legs of our bridle are fairly short as we have a set of bobstays for the screacher pole that the bridle fits inside of.

After dropping the anchor, we attach the hook to a link on the chain, then let out a loop of chain so that the bridle takes the strain.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[smj]

We use a chain hook on our bridle. I don't think I would want to use any type of knot if I didn't have to as that would be one more time consuming step if you were letting scope out or pulling the anchor in while dragging. I've never dragged anchor in slow motion it's always been a chinese fire drill to take care of the problem.

[Dockhead]

This is a bit of a necropost, and I wonder whether the OP is still interested.

But anyway since a lively discussion has been rekindled.

Simpler than a bridle is using a bow cleat with the snubber offset to one side. In my experience that will put some wind load on that side of the boat and dampen "dancing" at anchor.

Some people will run another line from a midships cleat and attach this to the snubber with a rolling hitch, to increase this offset. You then have an infinite range of adjustment for your angle to the wind, and you might find a sweet spot where the boat lies stably. I've never tried this (a certain amount of dancing at anchor doesn't bother me) but it sounds like a good technique.

That being said, I have never been at anchor on any sailboat that didn't dance at anchor. You shouldn't expect perfect stability. To get much better stability than you have now you will need some kind of riding sail (one of the advantages of ketches).

I recently anchored in a storm where I became concerned about chafe on the snubber. I ran the snubber over the second bow roller and belayed it to a dockline which I tied between the two bow cleats. It worked well since the roller took out the chafe. The central pull of the snubber did increase "dancing" slightly, but it was worth it not to worry about the snubber chafing through in the night.

As to knots, I can't imagine why anyone would use a complicated and difficult to untie know like a Prussik for this purpose. The rolling hitch, in my opinion, is just made for this application. As someone mentioned, it provides you with a virtual splice to chain, which miraculously does not bind when you need to untie it. It seems to me that the gentle angle of the rope inside the knot, which comes from the fact that it is assymetrical, would make it stronger than a Prussik, which makes the rope pull over at a very sharp (and therefore weak) angle, IMHO.

If you are at all nervous about its strength (I don't know why you would be, but suppose), you can add a turn at the bottom, and you can add a half-hitch at the top. I sometimes use the extra turn at the bottom when I want more friction, usually in low tension applications like hanging my headsail sheets from shrouds when the boat's not going to be used for a while. But that's for more friction, not more strength, and I've never had a totally normal rolling hitch slip or fail under any circumstances, including cases where the rope itself parted from strain. Along with the bowline I think it's THE essential nautical knot.

[rtbates]

I used to do that to get our 25D to settle down.I've since discovered that by simply walking the anchor line to the stern our 25D sits at anchor with no sailing around..And best of all less strain on the gear....

Jordan Series Drogue - Mooring and Anchoring

[Sandero]

Did I respond to this? I use an 1" braided nylon line with a heavy mooring compensator. I attach it when I have the scope down aft of the bow roller and tie it off on a bow cleat and let another 15 feet of chain until the chain is no longer carrying the anchor load. No chafe - fair lead over the bow roller. The mooring compensator will unwind a bit when the anchor is set and the wind pushes back at the boat. If the anchor is not setting, the mooring compensator show no strain. This works every time.

Removing the snubber is the reverse... windlass pulls the chain until the chain hook part of the snubber is aft of the roller. I unhook it and continue taking out the catenary slack in the chain. This makes the boat move up toward the anchor... and then another catenary and repeat. In strong winds this takes longer or requires some motoring to the anchor.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by defjef

I unhook it and continue taking out the catenary slack in the chain. This makes the boat move up toward the anchor... and then another catenary and repeat. In strong winds this takes longer or requires some motoring to the anchor.

We use this trick as well! I was always taught to keep motoring forward as you pull the chain up. This is a pain which requires precise coordination with the helm. Nowadays I do just what you are talking about. Pull the slack out of the chain, and wait. The boat moves forward and the chain sags again. Pull some more, then wait. Eventually the boat moves up over the anchor and breaks it out with the boat's own motion. Then you just pull the anchor up stow it. Since the boat is not moving (we were not motoring), I just walk back calmly to the helm and get underway. Works a treat.

This does not work, obviously, in very tight anchorages or in very strong wind.

[seashine]

Hello everyone, we have abridle on our cat but as the previous owner used undersized silver rope, some dodgy looking splices and a carabiner (!), I decided to upgrade to thicker nylon for the bridle and go back to a chain hook as we've never had problems with these on other boats.
What stumps me is how to turn my nice shiny new nylon rope into a Y shaped bridle... I've seen some that have a long splice to join one arm in and some where each arm of the Y has eye splices on the tail end which are then bent over an eye spliced into the "tail" of the Y. The latter looks like it places too much reliance on the eye splices and the former might possibly part, leaving one arm only.
What I'm asking for is what happens at the middle of the Y, not advice on length, attachment to boat etc etc as there are heaps of posts about that. Any advice gratefully accepted :-)

[cliffdykes]

Originally Posted by seashine

Hello everyone, we have abridle on our cat but as the previous owner used undersized silver rope, some dodgy looking splices and a carabiner (!), I decided to upgrade to thicker nylon for the bridle and go back to a chain hook as we've never had problems with these on other boats.
What stumps me is how to turn my nice shiny new nylon rope into a Y shaped bridle... I've seen some that have a long splice to join one arm in and some where each arm of the Y has eye splices on the tail end which are then bent over an eye spliced into the "tail" of the Y. The latter looks like it places too much reliance on the eye splices and the former might possibly part, leaving one arm only.
What I'm asking for is what happens at the middle of the Y, not advice on length, attachment to boat etc etc as there are heaps of posts about that. Any advice gratefully accepted :-)

As a previous poster suggested, I'm going to try a simple alpine butterfly knot in the centre of my bridle (see animatedknots.com for detail). Obviously you attach the chain hook before tying the knot. This seems like the easiest option to me, without having to do lots of fancy splicing work.

Cheers
Cliff

[boatman61]

Would it not be a lot simpler to have both liness with a cleat sized eye at one end and a smaller eye on the other... these are then linked by a permanent shackle thats connects to the hook... saves a lot of p#**ing about...

[cliffdykes]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Would it not be a lot simpler to have both liness with a cleat sized eye at one end and a smaller eye on the other... these are then linked by a permanent shackle thats connects to the hook... saves a lot of p#**ing about...

Some of us like p#**ing about

Cheers
Cliff

[seashine]

Hello again, seems like ( along with everything else on board) there is no "right" way to attach a bridle to the chain. What concerns me most is the strength of the various knots/splices, as this bridle is also going to be our main attachment point for the para-anchor... should we ever need to deploy it, that is!
The alpine butterfly knot looks great (and it's a great website, thanks so much!), and I should imagine we could attach the tail of the Y to it via an eye splice bent around the loop of it, but what effect would that have on the overall strength of the bridle? I'd certainly have a long tail, as that gives extra sproing :-)