Yankee 30 MK III w/ gas engine? Go or no go?

[chowdan]

Hi everyone!

Well I came across a Yankee 30 MK III that is up for sale. Asking price is $10.5k, and is just across the bay from me.

The boat is running an Atomic 4 Gas 18hp engine, which i've always been inclined towards diesel engines. However the boat looks to be in "decent" shape from the photos.

She is currently on the hard, and the broker has stated from the seller:
Summer, 2014, maintenance and upgrades
- Faired, primed and repainted hull (BUMS)
- Bottom paint (two coats)
- Began repainting deck ( up to end of companionway cover
- Repaired (starboard lazarette near hinge) and repainted both lazarette covers
- Removed and resealed stern teak plate
- Sanded and teak oiled toerail
- Barnacle preventive paint on prop
- New impeller
- Replacing interior hull cover (head and quarter berth)
- Flushed and cleaned fuel tank
- Replace Life Sling bag
- Batteries disconnected for storage
- Anti freeze in engine for winterizing


To do (Summer, 2016 or sooner)

- Finish repainting last third of the topside
- Replace bilge pump
- Finish replacing interior hull cover in quarter berth


My biggest concern is the Gas engine. I dont know much about them, however i've always heard horror stories about them and have always been told to steer clear.

Insight? Opinions? We're going to look at it on Sunday at around 2pm

We will be mainly sailing her around Pudget Sound area in WA, but our long term goal is to POSSIBLY take her down the coast towards Caribbean for an extended break away from life, or is it a break into life?

[jeepbluetj]

There are those that will say "Gas boats always blow up - amazingly dangerous"

There are those of us that own one, and are still waiting for the boat to blow up. It didn't blow up in the 35 years since it was built, but it still may.

Pros of the A4 gas engine:
1. It's in the boat and it runs.
2. They're quieter and smoother than similar sized diesels at the time. (Not that they aren't noisy and thumpy, just less)
3. Parts and rebuilds are easily available, and reasonably cheap. (a NEW one from Moyer is like $5k)
4. They are reliable and easy to work on. If you can fix a lawnmower you can fix an A4.
5. No high-pressure fuel pump or bleeding injectors.
6. They made 40,000 of these suckers. Guesses are that some 20K are still out there. If they blew up often, we'd all know about it.
7. Gas smells better than Diesel. (that's a stretch... I know)

Cons:
1. They sucketh the fuel down far faster ('bout 2x) than a diesel.
2. Yup. They're gas. Gotta be more careful than Diesel. Run the blower, check for leaks, etc.
3. Lower resale than a comparable diesel boat.
4. Ignition system adds to complexity of diagnosing problems. (But not much, and if you have electronic ign, it just works)
5. People will tell you constantly that it's gonna blow up.

They're good engines. Plenty of go. Not as much stop (Reverse is .5 rpm geared) Good for coastal cruising. Wouldn't want one for long-distance because of fuel consumption.

Moyer Marine is all things A4 - you can poke around on their forum to learn more.

[Cheechako]

Sounds like maybe a bit of a boat that the owner nibbled away at projects, but may not be that well done. Hard to say so go look at it. Hard to believe someone would start painting the deck and just stop somewhere... not sure, maybe there is a logical stopping point on those boats...? Brush painted? Could be a mess.
-"Faired, primed and repainted hull " Bottom or topsides? (topsides = hull above water)
-Why was fairing required in either case? Blisters below the waterline? Blisters above the waterline? Collision? I would want to know.
- Any boat with the Atomic 4 is harder to sell and worth less . Keep that in mind. I wouldn't call the price really good with an A4. (not arguing about an A4 being good or bad, just $ worth based on experience)
-re:The work done in 2014... bottom paint will be due again soon. Spring/summer 2016.
Looking means a lot, you'll figure it out. With the history, be sure to have a survey.

[tuffr2]

Gasoline is a way better smelling fuel. You can actually clean things with gasoline. Never cleaned anything with diesel.



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[Celestialsailor]

What is your intended purpose for the vessel? If coastal and bay...leave it. If coastal or off-shore cruising...I would repower for the sake of fuel economy and ability to use a larger alternator. You can always offer a little less because of the A4.

[chowdan]

Thanks a lot everyone for the info! Incredibly helpful!

I'm scheduled to see it at 2PM on Sunday. Hopefully nothing is "majorly" wrong with it and is just projects that the owner got side tracked on.

The gf and I have been on the market(not actively searching, more passive), and were looking to get just a cheap boat(10k was the very max), that we could use for coastal cruising/day/weekend sailing to San Juans and around the area.

Long term since it seems the Yankee 30 is a bit more, off shore capable than say a Catalina 27, we are considering over the next 4 years spending our excess time and resources at making the boat suitable for cruising down the PNW towards Panana, doing a crossing there and spending a good year in the Caribbean cruising around there.

I dont think we'd be making any passages, but something like this boat doesn't seem like it'd break the bank to acquire and put a ton of time into making her a decent vessel.

I do agree, if we do end up cutting the dock lines, we will definitely be repowering her with diesel.

All in all, looking at repowering her, i estimated it to be around $15k at the high end of things, does this sound about right?

As for cleaning, being raised in the Fiji islands on off-grid power, we often used diesel to clean many things rusted out tools and such

[chowdan]

On another note, the buyer is flexible, however the brokerage takes a flat $3k from the sale price, so i'm not sure how flexible he/she is going to be

If only he had the ad up on craigslist!

[Cheechako]

Have fun! Don't get emotional about it. If you want it, Offer much less, let them think about it. It's not uncommon to get 40% off on older, hard to sell boats. Really! The broker gets his % of whatever the selling price is usually.
Keep in mind:
-If he doesn't sell now he will be stuck with moorage all winter and spring. (at say 350/month that is maybe $2000 right there.)


-Cost of engine or engine work
-Sail cost, evaluate them.


I bought a boat up here in the PNW that was listed for $120k, I agreed to $110k. After full inspection we settled on $65k! but WARNING: I spent $40k fixing it up! So my price was not out of line.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Have fun! Don't get emotional about it. If you want it, Offer much less, let them think about it. It's not uncommon to get 40% off on older, hard to sell boats. Really! The broker gets his % of whatever the selling price is usually.
Keep in mind:
-If he doesn't sell now he will be stuck with moorage all winter and spring. (at say 350/month that is maybe $2000 right there.)


-Cost of engine or engine work
-Sail cost, evaluate them.


I bought a boat up here in the PNW that was listed for $120k, I agreed to $110k. After full inspection we settled on $65k! but WARNING: I spent $40k fixing it up! So my price was not out of line.

Very good to know! Do you have a surveyor that you'd recommend? I know they have another potential buyer that is taking a look at the boat on Thursday at 4PM, so it will be a guesstimate of how low can i go before he rejects me and HOPE that the other guy walks.

As for price wise, just off the bat, that i'd start at a significant decrease(50% or so off asking), and hoping to settle at around 40% mark.

Out of curiosity, for the purchase process, if we like the boat to put in an offer on her, we will definitely want to get a survey done, however do we put in the offer "under the condition of the survey coming with the boat in good shape"? If keelbolts are rusted out or some major work that is needing to be done due to the owner covering it up(unknowingly or not), I dont necessarily want to pay that submitted offer.

Also who covers the survey? Buyer or seller? The seller hasn't had one done yet. Does it jsut depend? If they dont want it done, i'd have to bite the bullet and pay for it? Can i have that as leverage for decreasing value on purchase price?

This is the first boat we've come across that we've liked enough to consider going beyond just looking, though we say that now, before we even have seen it. So that could change.

[barnakiel]

Do not get hung up on an engine. I have seen a Y30 restored in Cairns and she looked a 100% desirable piece of kit.

If the engine works: great! If not, hang an o/b or negotiate the price so that everything is discounted.

With such an old boat, it will be the health of the hull, the quality of the rig, etc. and fittings that rule the deal.

All other things equal, Y30 is one of the nicer small boats to have, I think.

b.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Do not get hung up on an engine. I have seen a Y30 restored in Cairns and she looked a 100% desirable piece of kit.

If the engine works: great! If not, hang an o/b or negotiate the price so that everything is discounted.

With such an old boat, it will be the health of the hull, the quality of the rig, etc. and fittings that rule the deal.

All other things equal, Y30 is one of the nicer small boats to have, I think.

b.

Thanks! I am not against owning a gas. Growing up, we owned quite a few boats(parents own a resort), all of which had o/b which I did a lot of work on with my dad. All the power for the resort and our house was via solar/wind and generator(diesel), so i have experience with diesel engines as well. I may be no mechanic, but i am a self taught software engineer, so i think if i just stick my head down, ill be able to fix the engine, as long as its within reason.

Since the engine is winterized, I am somewhat concerned about putting a number in terms of price since i wouldn't be able to do a sea trial, or be able to even test the engine

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by chowdan

Very good to know! Do you have a surveyor that you'd recommend? I know they have another potential buyer that is taking a look at the boat on Thursday at 4PM, so it will be a guesstimate of how low can i go before he rejects me and HOPE that the other guy walks.

As for price wise, just off the bat, that i'd start at a significant decrease(50% or so off asking), and hoping to settle at around 40% mark.

Out of curiosity, for the purchase process, if we like the boat to put in an offer on her, we will definitely want to get a survey done, however do we put in the offer "under the condition of the survey coming with the boat in good shape"? If keelbolts are rusted out or some major work that is needing to be done due to the owner covering it up(unknowingly or not), I dont necessarily want to pay that submitted offer.

Also who covers the survey? Buyer or seller? The seller hasn't had one done yet. Does it jsut depend? If they dont want it done, i'd have to bite the bullet and pay for it? Can i have that as leverage for decreasing value on purchase price?

This is the first boat we've come across that we've liked enough to consider going beyond just looking, though we say that now, before we even have seen it. So that could change.

Buyer pays survey and hauling costs. Look the boat over very well, think about it, go look again, as the survey etc is going to cost you $500-600 with haulout probably. The surveyor can look before haulout at much of it, and you can sea trial as part of that. If he feels you should go to haulout you can go ahead, or not and save the money if there is lots obviously wrong with it. But you haven't even seen the boat yet right?
If another buyer is truly interested that changes the dynamic, but it's also an oft used device by brokers also.
Sure there is some risk in moving slowly, but there is a lot of risk in moving too quickly. There are always more boats and you likely wont use it until spring anyway.
Just settle down and be logical and willing to walk away if necessary.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by chowdan

Thanks a lot everyone for the info! Incredibly helpful!

I'm scheduled to see it at 2PM on Sunday. Hopefully nothing is "majorly" wrong with it and is just projects that the owner got side tracked on.

The gf and I have been on the market(not actively searching, more passive), and were looking to get just a cheap boat(10k was the very max), that we could use for coastal cruising/day/weekend sailing to San Juans and around the area.

Long term since it seems the Yankee 30 is a bit more, off shore capable than say a Catalina 27, we are considering over the next 4 years spending our excess time and resources at making the boat suitable for cruising down the PNW towards Panana, doing a crossing there and spending a good year in the Caribbean cruising around there.

I dont think we'd be making any passages, but something like this boat doesn't seem like it'd break the bank to acquire and put a ton of time into making her a decent vessel.

I do agree, if we do end up cutting the dock lines, we will definitely be repowering her with diesel.

All in all, looking at repowering her, i estimated it to be around $15k at the high end of things, does this sound about right?

As for cleaning, being raised in the Fiji islands on off-grid power, we often used diesel to clean many things rusted out tools and such

Originally Posted by chowdan

On another note, the buyer is flexible, however the brokerage takes a flat $3k from the sale price, so i'm not sure how flexible he/she is going to be

If only he had the ad up on craigslist!

And people wonder why I dislike "most" brokers. $3K for what...oh well.
it sound to me that you have formulated a good, logical plan. A few of these boats have gone off-shore. I think there is still a Yahoo group for them. $15K for a repower? Only if you took it to a yard and let them do it. If you learn to glass a little and read up on engine electrical and plumbing, there is little reason you couldn't do it yourself. I've done 3 so far. All worked fine. There is also an option of buying a good used engine and going that way (another long topic for another time).
Best thing, You'll get most of your money back if things change. I highly recommend Calder's book http://www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Mec.../dp/0071432388

[barnakiel]

This one is a fine introduction to value thinking too!

A: A Y30 with gas engine is asked at 10k.
B: A small inboard costs 5k.
C: What is the value of A, ex the existing gas engine.

No no no - it is NOT 5k!

And the rest can be found by googling value, price, alternative, depreciation, equivalent, and all the more fancy terms.

I think it is best to buy boats on impulse. I would always buy the one I desire most. And how much to pay for one is a relatively easy mathematical task.

Another way to look at this: take price of that Y30 in the year when she was built, depreciate all relevant parts over relevant time frames and correct the remaining figure for inflation. BANG. Here comes how much it is worth (give and take market sentiment).

Cheers,
b.

[barnakiel]

PS SURVEYOR???

Does the boat look like it needs one? Cracks? Rotten core? Rusty keel bolts?

Buying a boat at 10k with a surveyor and a broker is like buying your grocery after prior consultancy with your lawyer, dentist and mother (too bad if the same person).

I would save the intermediary money and allocate it to new rigging, sails or whatever asks for replacement to make her a safe boat and fun to have.

If you do not think you can judge a 10k boat by the eye, get something smaller simpler up first (a s/h Snipe perhaps?) then mess about boatyards, yacht-clubs and friends' boats for a year or two. Then buy your own.

b.