Wooden Boat Owners

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by thompsonisland

That's the pinball mind part So, f/g really requires no routine repairs? I read about decks leaking because the 'glass flexes, hulls opening up under way (obviously a rare exception), and whatnot. I guess I wouldn't rule it out completely, but it makes me uncomfortable because it's alien to me.

That's why I said with a good reputation. When manufacturers saw the money to be made off F/G boats back in the 60's because the hull could be built in a matter of days rather than months, they saw dollar signs. Some manufacturers, especially in Southern, Ca. built less than quality boats. And yes, there was some experimentation with different cores in deck and hulls.
Names like Hallberg Rassy, Pacific Seacraft, Swan and a few others have years and years without issue.
But I do understand you have preferences. At that, I would remain with the wood that you love. I'm sure you can find what you want in wood and for a great price at that. I would take a woody over an aluminum boat for not only maintenance issues but for the mere soul of the boat. At least that's the way I see it.

[thompsonisland]

It does seem like more designers are incorporating the essential aesthetic elements of classic wooden boats into f/g and metal hulls, and I guess that look is what really matters to me. I'm a bit of a romantic.

[bobconnie]

Connie and i have had steel, wood, Glass, and Aluminum. All were great in there own ways. Wood was creaky, of course the boat was way older then yours LOL, Our steel boat we had over 25 yrs from bilding till we sold her ! shes still sailing ! Aluminum, well she needed more time and care then our steel boat ever did ! Now we just bought a glass boat ! she sails like a heavey wooden boat ! there is amost no noise even in high winds! and as she's bilt thick and has a lot of ballast, and we believe she will last us for a LONG time and require less maintainece then any of the boats we have owned and sailed in the past!! ( I guess as she is all wooded in side, we have the best of all worlds!) All we can say is ! Wish we had tryed Glass sooner!!

[thompsonisland]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Connie and i have had steel, wood, Glass, and Aluminum. All were great in there own ways. Wood was creaky, of course the boat was way older then yours LOL, Our steel boat we had over 25 yrs from bilding till we sold her ! shes still sailing ! Aluminum, well she needed more time and care then our steel boat ever did ! Now we just bought a glass boat ! she sails like a heavey wooden boat ! there is amost no noise even in high winds! and as she's bilt thick and has a lot of ballast, and we believe she will last us for a LONG time and require less maintainece then any of the boats we have owned and sailed in the past!! ( I guess as she is all wooded in side, we have the best of all worlds!) All we can say is ! Wish we had tryed Glass sooner!!

What's your new boat?

[Jim Cate]

G'Day TI,

There is another track that you might enjoy following... modern wood construction. By that I mean either cold molded or strip planked done in epoxy with a thin layer of glass over the timber. This construction produces a strong, stiff hull that retains the absolute resistance to toredo enjoyed by glass, avoids osmosis due to the epoxy, doesn't corrode or rust, and can if desired have the planking show through to the accommodation for the pleasant ambiance of a traditional wood hull.

There are no production boats built this way (AFAIK), so it means being willing to deal with all the issues of one-off construction... but it seems that you are happy with your older non-production boat so this shouldn't be an problem.

We're very happy with our strip planked (Western Red Cedar) boat...

Cheers,

Jim

[marujo.sortudo]

Cold molded boats are incredibly low maintenance by all accounts, and are a way for you to have a bit of your cake and eat it too. Personally, I love traditional wood construction. The sound of the water on a wood hull and the built in insulation are great features. A well-kept wooden boat will last forever. If you're afraid for toredos, you could do the traditional thing and sheath the hull in copper ($$). Being able to effect hull repairs just about anywhere in the world, even with supplies carried aboard, even careened on a deserted beach, even if it's raining, is quite a resume for workability. Try that with any other material. Of course, all the other materials have great strengths, too. If you like having a pretty boat and keeping it Bristol fashion, there's probably not an easier hull type to keep fair and pretty. A few hours of sanding and painting each year give us flawless topsides. In fact, a real treasure is a wood boat that was designed to be low maintenance. The best recipe for a low maintenance boat, though, is to have the smallest boat you can. Think very carefully before you upsize. I was reading an interesting article recently that did a brief analysis of boat costs and concluded that while purchase prices increase roughly linearly with length, maintenance costs had a stronger correlation with displacement. That's an easy trap for the unwary.

[rebel heart]

We a fiberglass hull, but wood:

- decks (teak over plywood over mahogany ribs
- mast (hollow spruce)
- booms (cedar, i think, for the main and spruce for the staysail)
- bowsprit (mahogany)
- cabin top (plywood over mahogany ribs)
- interior (teak paneling, holly floors)
- cockpit (teak, teak, teak)
- helm (teak)

It's a lot of friggin wood and there are some problems, but I'm actually amazed at how well it holds together. I'm also stoked that the hull itself is 1" fiberglass at the thinnest (like 7" in the bow).

My boat is 37 years old, and you really have to wonder how many boats built today are going to be ocean worthy in four decades.

[bobconnie]

Our new to us boat is really epoxy over a steel rib system, but we just call it Glass !!It has the nice side as she will never have blisters because of it being epoxy and glass beads! But she is solid everywhere! the decks are as soild as our steel boat was! We looked at glass boats for the last 2 years and found Many we would have bought if we coud have made a deal or if the boats had surveyed out well ! Just sayin we loved wood and steel, but glass is so much easier to maintain !

[thompsonisland]

Well, I do figure that 70 years of regular usage with good maintenance (but not Bristol trim) have to count for something. And people fall off ferries to photograph her, so that's kind of nice (even if dh is waving his arms for them to wait until the trim is right).

[Kettlewell]

I have owned several various wooden boats, and the material is my favorite for a variety of reasons. I currently own a fiberglass boat, but my previous three were wood. The huge advantage of fiberglass is that it can take the most neglect and still keep going. Most wood boats, even cold-molded and other types of modern epoxy construction, just won't last long if neglected. Same with steel, and somewhat that way with aluminum if someone say leaves the boat tied up long term in a funky marina with lousy wiring. I'm not saying that old fiberglass boats don't have problems, but they rarely become basket cases or sink because of the problems, and they are almost always salvageable. Whereas you can look around almost any boatyard in the world and see wooden and steel boats that aren't really worth repairing anymore, and probably a few ferro ones too. Aluminum is so rare, that they tend to be very high-end and expensive, at least to me, so there aren't many to compare. One of the big hassles with aluminum these days is finding a bottom paint system that can be put on when you are in some odd third-world country. It is very handy and cost saving to be able to use ordinary materials to repair things yourself.

[marujo.sortudo]

Another thought on materials, if you cruise far, is that wood, steel, and nowadays glass are often able to be repaired just about anywhere. Aluminum is a bit more of a special skill set, to my understanding...

I actually went through a similar thought process when I was boat shopping. I grew up with a dad who was a wooden boat builder, but I considered glass, steel, aluminum, and wood boats. A primary driving concern was the knowledge that I would be doing virtually all the work myself. As such, I wanted a skill set that I was comfortable learning and I wanted the work to be enjoyable to me. I ended up with a wood boat as I enjoy working with wood and find it almost a meditative experience. My experiences working with glass are quite different, and I don't think I could stand too much of that. My decks are sheathed in Dynel, though, as will be the hull of my next dinghy when I build it. The chafe resistance of glass is really incredible.

Interestingly, many of the lobsterman in Maine have been going from glass boats back to wood. Apparently, the motion is much easier on them. Not sure how that translates to sail boats, though.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Most wood boats, even cold-molded and other types of modern epoxy construction, just won't last long if neglected.

G'Day Kettlewell,

I wonder if you could expand a bit on this statement? I'm curious as to what you think will decay if neglected.

Cheers,

Jim

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Kettlewell,

I wonder if you could expand a bit on this statement? I'm curious as to what you think will decay if neglected.

Cheers,

Jim

Anything wood will rot, given the right circumstances. Just some wood construction methods less prone / more forgiving than others.

My main experiance of that does come s/h - one of me Father's wooden boats had a hull that was hot moulded with wood veneers - baked in an autoclave under presurre, the hull was one piece (same technology as used for aircraft in the 40's / 50's - which is where the autoclave came from!). IMO you don't get any better than that construction with wood.

Me Father's boat started off in good condition - and became a minter , but that wasn't maintanence free (albeit he was very fastidious).......however, a couple of sister ships were not so lucky with their owners (me / father got to have a good looksee at them over the years as various owners came and went). The problems arose from freshwater, sitting in the bilges and coming in through the decks and good old fashioned condensation. Of course an Epoxy barrier would solve much of that problem - but nonetheless water / damp does always get in somewhere (usually hidden), no matter that in theory it should not.

FWIW, me father's "minter" was also not so lucky with her succession of owners (although a couple did give her a good go) - presently lying next to my boat and looking very sad, bought last year for a song by an optimist . The Yard has quoted £12k for work that would barely start to bring her back to life - a good one (if you can still find one) would cost IRO £10 / £12k.

Much discussion by father about buying her back (he had her for the thick end of 20 years) - but at the thick end of 80 he realised the work required would probably kill him!, or failing that simply not be completed by the time he shuffled off...........

Having said all that, I do like the look and feel of wooden boats - and I won't rule out one day having a brain fart and buying one .

[Kettlewell]

I wonder if you could expand a bit on this statement? I'm curious as to what you think will decay if neglected.

I have seen it first hand on both traditional wood construction and modern construction. Typically, it begins with a water entry point. Someone drills a hole somewhere and doesn't seal it properly, the toerail gets loosened when the boat bangs up against a dock, a panga bangs into the hull. Once the epoxy/fiberglass layer is punctured and water gets in it begins to do its insidious work. I sold a solid cold molded boat to a guy who basically neglected the boat and it became a basket case in a few years of sitting around the boatyard, with water pooled on deck and in various nooks and crannies, and in the bilge, and pretty soon rot had set in. In general, a more traditional wooden boat can withstand a lot more abuse because the moisture has a chance to go out as well as come in--with epoxy sheathing it gets into the structure and stays in there. Also, on a traditional boat it is a lot easier to replace a rotten plank or two, or a broken frame, then it is to rebuild a section of disintegrating cold molded hull. What I'm talking about is neglect--I personally love wood if I am onboard, watching things, and keeping on top of all the little niggling things that can later turn into nightmares. A fiberglass boat can withstand a lot more neglect, which is the care that many boats receive.

[thompsonisland]

When one lives aboard, is it that hard to keep up with the maintenance? Any boat that I can't trailer to the house is too much for me if I have to maintain the house, too, but I would think living aboard would be different. I rent, which makes it possible for us to have a big wooden boat because spring weekends are few and houses need paint, and systems, and roofs, and all those things, too.