Vendee 2020

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

(Let alone that racing is not about safety, it is about winning).


b.

I disagree.[/QUOTE]


You have never raced.


b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

I don't know what the optimum conditions are, but I believe a very general term would be a broad reach. The Youtube coverage has mentioned an average speed advantage of 3 knots.

They are broad reaching right now. The advantage now is 200 miles. They are now 2 weeks into the Indian.


14 (days) x 24 (hours) x 3 (knots advantage in Youtube) = (roughly) 1000 miles.


Clearly that youtube material is incorrect then?


Yes / NO / Another option?



barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

I don't know what the optimum conditions are, but I believe a very general term would be a broad reach. The Youtube coverage has mentioned an average speed advantage of 3 knots.

My try now :


35 days of racing


200 miles advantage now


+/- 6 miles a day advantage


= 0.25 knot advantage to the foiler




The above gives you a comfortable cushion of some 400-500 miles on this rtw race. Good enough to justify the bloody noise they must stand when the foiler moves fast.


What do you think?


barnakiel

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

My try now :


35 days of racing


200 miles advantage now


+/- 6 miles a day advantage


= 0.25 knot advantage to the foiler




The above gives you a comfortable cushion of some 400-500 miles on this rtw race. Good enough to justify the bloody noise they must stand when the foiler moves fast.


What do you think?


barnakiel

If you want to win, yes. I believe some of them use noise-cancelling earphones. Do F1 or Paris-Dakar drivers worry about noise? Do mountaineers worry about cold and discomfort?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

My try now :


35 days of racing


200 miles advantage now


+/- 6 miles a day advantage


= 0.25 knot advantage to the foiler




The above gives you a comfortable cushion of some 400-500 miles on this rtw race. Good enough to justify the bloody noise they must stand when the foiler moves fast.


What do you think?


barnakiel

Your analysis misses the point that most of the conditions experienced so far have not been in the foiler sweet spot. There was a bit down the N Atlantic after the big front, and some days since getting through the St Helena High. Now, in the front of the fronts it’s often too rough.

The 3 knots advantage is correct, but only in ideal conditions. And that advantage is minuscule when boats are in different conditions with one in little wind and the other with plenty. Generally in this race the foils are an impediment in the Southern Ocean and a gain in the Atlantic and Pacific. The question is whether the gains outweigh the losses - in this edition it’s going to be a very close thing with the way the Atlantic went.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

If you want to win, yes. I believe some of them use noise-cancelling earphones. Do F1 or Paris-Dakar drivers worry about noise? Do mountaineers worry about cold and discomfort?

Actually yes they do. Can’t speak for mountaineers but if you watch any races you’ll see the drivers pulling hearing protection / ear sets off

[DomPerignon]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I disagree.

You have never raced.


b.[/QUOTE]

I have never raced. That’s why I need your help to understand. You say racing is not about safety it’s all about winning. Please help me understand how you can win a race if your boat breaks in two in the middle of the race?
Pardon my ignorance.

[Franziska]

Very simple, take boat which is likely to make to the finish and push it to the limit, but not over it.

This race is, as any race, about winning.

But here you need not only be a fantastic sailor and tactician but a good crafts(wo!) man too, so that you can fix things under way.

Plus you need to be able to judge where the limits of your boat are.

[MicHughV]

in true Vendee explanation....in order to win.....you have to finish first !!!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

You have never raced.


b.

I have never raced. That’s why I need your help to understand. You say racing is not about safety it’s all about winning. Please help me understand how you can win a race if your boat breaks in two in the middle of the race? Pardon my ignorance.[/QUOTE]





1) Races are won by sailing fast.

2) Light boats are faster than heavier boats.

3) For a boat to be less likely to break, it must be stronger.

4) All other things equal, extra strength implies extra weight.

5) Hence the stronger boat will be slower.


Did it help?

barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Your analysis misses the point that most of the conditions experienced so far have not been in the foiler sweet spot. There was a bit down the N Atlantic after the big front, and some days since getting through the St Helena High. Now, in the front of the fronts it’s often too rough.

The 3 knots advantage is correct, but only in ideal conditions. And that advantage is minuscule when boats are in different conditions with one in little wind and the other with plenty. Generally in this race the foils are an impediment in the Southern Ocean and a gain in the Atlantic and Pacific. The question is whether the gains outweigh the losses - in this edition it’s going to be a very close thing with the way the Atlantic went.

It was not an analysis so much as an explainer of where the 200 miles came from.


Clearly this edition of VG is very far from ideal conditions for foilers.


barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

If you want to win, yes. I believe some of them use noise-cancelling earphones. Do F1 or Paris-Dakar drivers worry about noise? Do mountaineers worry about cold and discomfort?

Yes, we do too. Think of oxygen, sunglasses, and sleeping bags rated down to -40degs centigrade. On a very cold mountain night, I will piss into a PET bottle and sleep with it. Why waste any body heat?



You can hear the foil high pitched noise on any video where they run fast.


I think they all have some kind of dealing with the noise. Be it plain ear plugs on the older slower boats.



I too suffer greatly from boat noise on the crossings - and our boat moves at say 4 to 6 knots only. A boat is a great drum, if you think of it.


Extreme sandwich boats are somewhat quieter (Sadlers, Etap's, etc.). But all newest IMOCAS are (I believe) single skin carbon. If you have ever been on a carbon boat, you know what this means to the noise levels onboard.


b.

[DomPerignon]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I have never raced. That’s why I need your help to understand. You say racing is not about safety it’s all about winning. Please help me understand how you can win a race if your boat breaks in two in the middle of the race? Pardon my ignorance.

1) Races are won by sailing fast.

2) Light boats are faster than heavier boats.

3) For a boat to be less likely to break, it must be stronger.

4) All other things equal, extra strength implies extra weight.

5) Hence the stronger boat will be slower.


Did it help?

barnakiel[/QUOTE]

Your explanation makes perfect sense for short races like sprints.
It’s like in running there’s sprints like the 100 or 200 meters but there’s also the marathon. The America’s Cup is like a sprint but the Vendée is a marathon. Those are two completely different types of races. The Vendée is not only about speed it’s about pace .

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

1) Races are won by sailing fast.

2) Light boats are faster than heavier boats.

3) For a boat to be less likely to break, it must be stronger.

4) All other things equal, extra strength implies extra weight.

5) Hence the stronger boat will be slower.


Did it help?

barnakiel

Your explanation makes perfect sense for short races like sprints.
It’s like in running there’s sprints like the 100 or 200 meters but there’s also the marathon. The America’s Cup is like a sprint but the Vendée is a marathon. Those are two completely different types of races. The Vendée is not only about speed it’s about pace .[/QUOTE]


Well it did not.


b.

[DomPerignon]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Your explanation makes perfect sense for short races like sprints.
It’s like in running there’s sprints like the 100 or 200 meters but there’s also the marathon. The America’s Cup is like a sprint but the Vendée is a marathon. Those are two completely different types of races. The Vendée is not only about speed it’s about pace .

Well it did not.


b.[/QUOTE]

Ok from now on talk to Jean Le Cam