Used Bavaria

[AClemens]

Hi sailors!
I was just looking at Bella Luna, a Bavaria Vision 46 from 2015 for sale. Two questions came up that I would like to ask about before buying or not..,
1) the boat was told to have 350 engine hours, but after checking with Volvo Penta, the electronic box was changed at 660 hours. So, the total hours are about 1050 instead.
2) the boat was told never to have been aground, but it had significant repairs in the bilge right behind the keel.
Are these common findings on used boats that I can disregard or should I look for another boat?
Happy to hear your advise! 😊

[boatman61]

Walk away..

[neilpride]

Yes walk away, a repair in the bilge behind the keel mean troubles.

[sailingharry]

The engine hour issue could be legitimate ignorance. If the engine hour meter reads 300, and the person who entered the data was unaware of the history (be it the owner or the broker), that would be a reasonable situation. A thousand hours on a 7-year-old boat is not a red flag in any way, our boat is three times that age with four times the hours. It is only 150 hours a year, more than many boats that sit idle but less than many boats that are well used.

The damage in the bilge area is more disconcerting. I've been aground many many times, but fiberglass repair is not a normal part of going aground! If that is from an extremely hard grounding, that's a problem. Or if it's from being dropped in the travel lift or some other incident, it is equally disconcerting.

[sailingharry]

Oh, a follow-up on the bilge damage. That could be damage, which as I said and others have said is a problem. It could also be a modification to the original build. On my boat, a Saga 43, many owners have been unhappy with the keel bolt situation and have removed the nuts, leveled the bottom of the bilge, and built large custom washer plates. This is not repairing damage, but adjusting a minor issue from the original build.

Getting either anecdotal background on the cause, or an opinion from an experienced surveyor would be important.

[AClemens]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

The damage in the bilge area is more disconcerting. I've been aground many many times, but fiberglass repair is not a normal part of going aground! If that is from an extremely hard grounding, that's a problem. Or if it's from being dropped in the travel lift or some other incident, it is equally disconcerting.

Could it be that the keel was positioned incorrectly on the two blocks of wood supporting it in the cradle? I have an impression that the aft block tend to ”bend” the keel backwards if to much weight is put on it. An indication was that some lockers inside were skewed and diffucult to open. The owner said this is not a problem when she’s in the water. Is this normal on a boat without laminate damages?

Will most likely walk away, but eager to understand more… ��

[George_SD]

Engine hours is not a huge problem, but the potential damage and repair can be an issue. Dont forget, your insurance company will need a survey and if the surveyor deems the issue a suspect - they will want you to fix it or will not insure the boat.

[nightowle]

That's really a shame because Bavaria's in general are great production boats, and that model is a nice one. But if they aren't providing truly adequate answers to these two questions then you really do have to walk. Responding to the issue of the bilge and keel with something about cabinetry is a red flag IMO.

But, I can say that the gelcoat in the bilge area on Bavarias is not completely smooth and reflects to some degree the layup of the glass. I hope that's not what is being confused here.

[desodave]

I would agree that it's the lack of truthful answers that is the big problem. We made the mistake of putting our previous boat in charter and it was grounded twice ... or more specifically hit rocks. We sold the boat 2 years ago specifying that it had been grounded twice and provided the bills from the very reputable yard that did both repairs. The repairs behind the keel probably strengthened the boat in that area and the repairs from the first grounding may have minimized the damage from the second one. We sailed the boat for 12 years after the second hit. I think honesty counts and it sounds suspiciously absent in this case.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by AClemens

Could it be that the keel was positioned incorrectly on the two blocks of wood supporting it in the cradle? I have an impression that the aft block tend to ”bend” the keel backwards if to much weight is put on it. An indication was that some lockers inside were skewed and difficult to open. The owner said this is not a problem when she’s in the water. Is this normal on a boat without laminate damages?

Will most likely walk away, but eager to understand more… ��

Very typical in some Beneteau models too, the AFT area of the keel pushes the hull, oil canning.
When the boat is lifted on the travelift it disappears.

It is a design flaw, many of these boats have a mold grid liner where the keel bolts are attached, right where the entrance last step ends, there is usually a liner bay without any kind of reinforcement, the last keel bolt is usually a single one , and it is fitted in the last keel reinforcement beam of the liner, from there to the next beam there is a wide liner bay, this in an Oceanis, no idea in the Bavaria's, but it can be similar.

If you want to be sure it's just a reinforcement, hire an surveyor and ask for a test of the boat hanging from the travelift, up and down, measure the gaps and see if there are any cracks in the aft edge of the keel, doors that open and close with the boat supported and raised, and how much oil canning we are talking about.

These types of boats are delicate to support on land, 2 wooden blocks under the keel are not enough, a hull support is needed just where the aft rear part of the keel ends, if they have previously supported it for long periods of time without support , the laminate of the hull in that area can take a vice.

[more]

Originally Posted by AClemens

Hi sailors!
I was just looking at Bella Luna, a Bavaria Vision 46 from 2015 for sale. Two questions came up that I would like to ask about before buying or not..,
1) the boat was told to have 350 engine hours, but after checking with Volvo Penta, the electronic box was changed at 660 hours. So, the total hours are about 1050 instead.
2) the boat was told never to have been aground, but it had significant repairs in the bilge right behind the keel.
Are these common findings on used boats that I can disregard or should I look for another boat?
Happy to hear your advise! 😊

i think you to slow boat is sold for only 310000€ + tax only

now is new market with couple question for buyer.

1 do you want owning boat
a/yes
b/no
2 if answer on 1 is yes
when find boat in your finacing budget, pay boat in advance or you lose boat.
or if you lucky have 1/2 hour for visual inspection.

i am crazy whit this market. i want world recesion,what financial market wait.

[AClemens]

Yep - the boat is sold, most likely at around 270 incl VAT. I’m sure the new owner will be happy, she was apart from what has been discussed above, in great shape.
Thanks all, for making this forum to the great knowledge base it is! :-)