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Greatketch33 · 07-09-2015, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Structured?? Are you serious? This is the internet... And BTW, the gentleman that you are chiding is talking about a cat ketch, not a ketch rigged catamaran. There is a difference. Jim

Thank you, Jim.

I am sure the reference to another thread was in good will for my convenience.

The cat ketch is not familiar to many. In addition, my cat ketch has half wishbone booms: I have had other sailers asked how my booms got bent.

That is why these threads are so helpful in learning. I may not have a "traditional" ketch, but I enjoy learning about them and all sorts of boats with sails.

Deric

beiland · 07-09-2015, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstrebe

So with the high tension on the back stay (which the fore-aft spreader has to counter) and little to no stretch, side load forces that are allowed to move the backstay side-to-side will necessarily pull the mast backwards from the peak. Furthermore, since the mast is also back-stayed right below this fore-aft spreader, the entire flex in the mast to tolerate the side-side motion will come only from the upper mast portion from the spreader up. With the compression of the spreader against the mast and this back tension, typical aluminum will break right at the spreader bar unless it's heavily reinforced, adding weight aloft.

Don't quite understand you here. Don't the shrouds carry a lot of the side-side forces?...particularly with very wide spreaders (tradition ones, not the fore-aft one you refer to (that I term a jumper strut).

Yes that upper portion of my mast between the attachments (both upper and lower) of the diamond wires does experience lots of extra compression loading. The key to keeping things in check with big compression loads is to keep things in column,....and keeping this relatively short section of mast in column can be accomplished by reinforcing that section of mast, ...not necessarily the entire mast tube.

Quote:

I think the simplest solution is to simply make the mast straight up, such that the mizzen main (I guess I'll call it) is vertical to it, and angling the two headsails a bit more along their leech to reach it. The mast would have to be taller, but that's a much easier problem to solve.

That begins to look like the old Prout catamaran configuration. One thing I found troublesome with that rig was the forestays joining the mast at such a big angle (really pulling forward more than usual), that the shallow angle of the backstays could not 'defend it' properly,...resulting in very slack forestays.

Quote:

Another potential solution is two masts (like a ketch) but both stepped at the same location, one raked forward as you have it and one going straight up to support the mizzen. This aft mast could then be properly stayed.

Perhaps something like this?

Diomedea Exulans
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 7 - Boat Design Forums

alctel · 10-09-2015, 10:48

I would have loved a ketch, but the rigging cost and complexity would have killed me, so I got a sloop.

Love the look of them though

Boxertwinjeff · 02-12-2015, 00:16

This Roberts 36 Ketch if I buy will be my first yacht, anyone familiar with these raised flush deck Roberts, do they sail fine or do they sail like slugs,
are they a good safe sea boat, have fallen for the look of a Ketch...

Rustic Charm · 02-12-2015, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

This Roberts 36 Ketch if I buy will be my first yacht, anyone familiar with these raised flush deck Roberts, do they sail fine or do they sail like slugs,
are they a good safe sea boat, have fallen for the look of a Ketch...

Is the Tasmanian one for sale? Bargain if it is.

Boxertwinjeff · 02-12-2015, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Is the Tasmanian one for sale? Bargain if it is.

What do you know about this boat?, do you know the owner

Rustic Charm · 02-12-2015, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

What do you know about this boat?, do you know the owner

I don't know. It looks like foxy lady that's on boat sales TAS.

med · 02-12-2015, 01:43

These guys are building ketches and nothing else. They have always only built ketches for a good many years now. The design gets gradually updated and gradually grows in length over time.

AMEL – Chantiers Amel

There are a good number of them out there and they often sail long distances. They are usually bought by people really sailing to far off places and know that these boats correspond very well to what you need to do that in a great deal of comfort and safety.

Very much form follows function.

Good boats - but not cheap new. Although the base price does include a lot of gear which is usually listed as optional on other boats.

Boxertwinjeff · 02-12-2015, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I don't know. It looks like foxy lady that's on boat sales TAS.

Yeh, that's the one, an old boat, the fitout is well outdated and in need of a refit, amongst other things,...so you like old Ketches by the looks.

Seymore · 02-12-2015, 20:57

John Voss was in the same league as Joshua Slocum. In about 1903 he pretty well sailed around the world in a dugout canoe, and he wrote two classic books, 'The Voyage of the Tillicom' and 'The Voyage of the Sea Queen'. In the books he puts up a lot of knowledgeable stuff about seamanship on the ocean, like sea anchors, oil on the water and riding out hurricanes.

In Sea Queen he says that the best small boats for going on the ocean are yawls and ketches, because in a storm you can put out a sea anchor and leave the mizzen sail (only) up, to keep the bow heading into the wind and waves. Both Tillicum and Sea Breeze were ketches.

Rustic Charm · 02-12-2015, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

Yeh, that's the one, an old boat, the fitout is well outdated and in need of a refit, amongst other things,...so you like old Ketches by the looks.

It's nothing I planned. Mine just came up for a good price so I grabbed it. I've not learnt to use the mizzen properly yet, but I hope to soon. It needed some work.

Seymore · 03-12-2015, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymore

John Voss was in the same league as Joshua Slocum. In about 1903 he pretty well sailed around the world in a dugout canoe, and he wrote two classic books, 'The Voyage of the Tillicom' and 'The Voyage of the Sea Queen'. In the books he puts up a lot of knowledgeable stuff about seamanship on the ocean, like sea anchors, oil on the water and riding out hurricanes.

In Sea Queen he says that the best small boats for going on the ocean are yawls and ketches, because in a storm you can put out a sea anchor and leave the mizzen sail (only) up, to keep the bow heading into the wind and waves. Both Tillicum and Sea Breeze were ketches.

Correction. The book that I have is 'The Venturesome Voyages of Captain Voss' by John C. Voss. It contains accounts of the voyages in Tilikum and Sea Queen. At the end he puts up the classic stuff about heavy weather seamanship, and on page 311 he says the best sea boats are yawls, schooner-yawls, ketches and schooner-ketches.

sailor1924 · 18-12-2015, 20:02

There'll be no death of the ketch while I'm around. I love the ketch rig. I've owned two of them and wouldn't give up the rig for love or money. You can actually sail backwards with a ketch rig for that alone it should be revered and saved from extinction. Not only can you lay to a sea anchor with the ketch rig but you can balance the sail plan on any point of sail and point up higher then that other very flexible rig, the schooner. And they are very pretty.