Talk me out of a new boat.

[somanyboats]

we started out with a Columbia 22. lots of fun and sailed every weekend. we needed more room and moved up to a union 36' It was a beautiful boat but realized we didn't use it very often. it wasn't as fun to sail and we felt like we needed to make bigger trips with it. We are now sailing a PSC 32. it's a better fit for us. My whole point of this is the smaller boat seems to get used and sailed more often. they are just more fun and easier to use.

[Sailshabby]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

Story time. I grew up on a Hunter 37c. It was the first thing I sailed, since then I have sailed Swans (rocket compared to the hunter@40'), Hunter 49, Jeanneau 54 and 57, and for the last 5 years a Columbia 9.6 that I have done significant updates on.

I sail on the great lakes, so the 31' columbia has been easy to find room for and has few faults. Biggest faults are lack of chain locker and bow roller, lack of propane stove, and being generally cozy compared to designs newer than 1976. It is also a bit slow. If I plan a trip, I have to base it on 3.5 kts. That said, in ideal conditions, she can really scoot. I have seen 6ks commonly and 9 going a bit downwind in a gale.

What I need to be talked into or out of is a C&C 40 AC https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cc-40-2-ac. My main gripe? Aside from needing a bigger, more expensive slip, is the 7 foot draft vs. my current 5.5'. Bigger boats are always exponentially more expensive, but I'm hopeful that this would be otherwise ideal. It has a great layout both inside and out and seems to be thoughtfully engineered for both livability and speed. Hull speed on this works out around 7.5 knots, greatly increasing my chances of a good cruise at 5-6knots average. I could plan more interesting trips. Maybe do some racing.

Any C&C knowledge or experience would be helpful as it is a make I see a lot, but this is the first I really liked.

Talk you out of it? Let us know what you rename her…

[Greatest Lakes]

The boat is relatively inexpensive. 25k. Supposedly the boat does well in light winds, and reportedly has good sails. As far as the rest goes, I'll be climbing all over and picking at it tomorrow. The winches, of which there are 10, are all non self tailing, so I'd be replacing those a pair at a time again. I'm quite pleased with my andersen winches.

[Greatest Lakes]

Ok. Went to go see it today. Found no delamination or soft spots on the hull or deck. Found very little evidence of water inside as far as wood damage goes. The interior was in fairly good shape. Cabin sole had some water damage on the finish around the main hatch, and the floor boards were very tight. I found a few hoses that need replacement before putting it back in the water. A few fiddly things on deck need replacement. The mainsheet halyard is a wire and rope type and the wire portion has a bad strand and needs replacement. The headsail furler is an old original, but seems to be complete. The westerbeke diesel has a V drive with the packing under the motor. The engine access is from the side inside the lazarette and under the cockpit sole just ahead of the steering pedestal. A bit harder to work on than I'd have hoped, and I've never worked with a V drive before.

Here is the problem. The boat had a very obvious keel issue. There is a bulge on one side that appears to be from water intrusion and a freeze. I'm wondering if this freeze also bulged the keel slightly at the top, opening the seem towards the front. I could not inspect the farthest forward keel bolt due to a stuck floorboard. The keel bolt just ahead of the mast, attached to the mast step had a 1/8" gap between the washers, and where it should have sat. I'm going to have a word with the owner and the boatyard about remedy and costs. It looks as if the keel bolts may have pulled out a bit, and allowed bilge water to leak out. I found no damage to the hull. No cracks or deformation in any of the fiberglass.

[Greatest Lakes]

Just a few more pictures. The interior really was in great shape. Chain plates and rod rigging. Very good shape.

[Hamish_ct]

What you are seeing is the known C&C smile issue. I own a C&C 33-2 Lovely boat sails great. C&C construction is excellent. The rod rigging connects to a steel rod that is mounted to the frame that supports the keel. Unlike other boats were the rigging connects to a plate on the bulkhead.

IMHO you will have to drop the keel, have it inspected for cracks and other issues, then have it rebedded. 10k easy. If the boat is sound, and there is a good yard there, I would discount that into the cost of the boat. Otherwise I would pass. the keel issues in the pics are major and will get worse over time.

If you can get that fixed you will enjoy this boat for a very long time.

[timb7734]

Have sailed for 40 years on the Great Lakes. For me, any desirable boat would have to be good in the predominantly light air, and have no more draft than 5.5 feet. There are boats up to 40 feet with modified wing keels that stay under this draft, but any more severely limits cruising areas that the Lakes are so well known for: North Channel of Lake Huron, Georgian Bay, Green Bay, and Lake Superior.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Hamish_ct

...IMHO you will have to drop the keel, have it inspected for cracks and other issues, then have it rebedded. 10k easy....

That seems like a high estimate. Maybe if you're sitting back in you condo with your feet up having a beer while the yard does it all, yes, it will be expensive.

But much of the work can be do-it yourself (with some good advice close by).

I had the yard lift my boat off the keel and the keel bolts inspected by a metallurgy lab. I did serious repairs to the lead keel myself. You can do it.

If you have tons of money, buy a more expensive boat without these issues.

If you have no interest in getting your hands dirty, find another low priced boat (with its own problems).

But it won't cost much to lift the boat off of the keel once it is properly supported.

Grinding into that huge wart is definatly a "do it yourself' job. Looking at what you find might be something you need help with.

Mostly repairs are common sense, don't be afraid.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

The boat is relatively inexpensive. 25k. Supposedly the boat does well in light winds, and reportedly has good sails. As far as the rest goes, I'll be climbing all over and picking at it tomorrow. The winches, of which there are 10, are all non self tailing, so I'd be replacing those a pair at a time again. I'm quite pleased with my andersen winches.

I found excellent used winches on EBay and replaced some of my non-self tailing winches with self tailers, even three speed.

[AKA-None]

Is that an exhaust line with no loop I’m seeing

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Is that an exhaust line with no loop I’m seeing

Just guessing (maybe the OP noticed and can tell us) but since the view is mostly aft from the stbd side of the bustle I think the two black pipes in the foreground are cockpit drains (some fitters like to cross them). You can see both through-hull fittings adjacent to the bustle. And the black hose at the top of the photo is probably the exhaust hose going to the transom. The high spot (loop?) would be forward, close to the engine and muffler, to the right of the photo.

Pretty standard arrangement for boats of this type from the late 70's and early 80's.

[Na Mara]

Best advice for cruisers every has to be ……

Buy the smallest boat that meets your needs not the largest boat you can afford.

Truly words to live by. Sit down with a drinking buddy and go through what you need from a boat, not what you want but what you need. Here “need” should not be interpreted as the absolute bare minimum to get afloat but rather what is required to service your typical sailing program. Anything atypical you can do by chartering. You should then rank those requirements in how vital they are to you.

Once you have that ordered list of requirements find the smallest boat, in reasonable condition, that meets them optimally. Buy that boat and get out there. You will have way more fun sailing in a cheaper, smaller, simpler boat that meets your essential criteria than you will in a more expensive, larger, more complex boat that has a bunch of extra features that you rarely use.

Only the OP can know if his present boat meets the needs of his typical program. If it does then my two cents is he should stick with what he has and use the money he saves to charter when the fancy for something atypical takes him. If not then maybe something shorter than 40ft but longer than 31 would be a more optimal fit.

If it was just me and the wife I’d be sailing a Regina 35 or Sirius 31 right now, but we regularly sail with 4 plus onboard (kids, relatives etc) and so it’s a Regina 43 that hits our sweet spot.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher34

... Also do you think the sail area is enough for your sailing needs ? Will it be a boat that only goes in a blow hence you motor more etc. Also you don’t mention your crew strength but everything gets heavier and in absence of power winches more tiresome if not tiring. Will it have a proper reefing set up ?...

I lknow these boats well.

I think the OP has already discovered many of the characteristics you are concerned about.

This boat will fly in light air, it does NOT have a deficit sail area. Motoring is rarely needed.

It will, however, move very well in moderate and heavy air with small sails and the winch loads will be extremely moderate, no need for crew strength unless full on racing in Heavy Number 1 weather.

Certainly it will have slab reefing for quick and easy reefing however one person will have to go to the mast, briefly.

These are not his problems, the keel is.

[shrspeedblade]

How bad do you want this specific boat?

I'm someone who just bought a boat with a significant issue (not that significant!) that needs correcting and I'd walk away after 30 seconds of looking at that keel.

Here's what I did FWIW if it really has do me THIS ONE: maybe an incredibly reasonable offer based on that serious issue, say 10 to 15 grand, and tell yourself it will only happen if it's meant to be. A probably most importantly keep looking at other boats, it will help keep your emotions in check when it comes to this one.

Good luck! (And I say walk.)

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

So, you want a bigger, faster, more roomy boat, and you want us to talk you out of it? Maybe if we say everything good about the C & C, you'll remind yourself how much you like your Columbia. She's (the Columbia, I mean) cosy; lovely in a blow off the wind and efficient upwind, and has taken care of you for a while, now. A propane stove could be worked out for a lot less expense than a whole new boat to wrap around a propane stove. You can race any boat you have. Do they not have phrf in your area? [performance handicap racing fleet] Is there something else useful you might do with the $$ involved?

This really all comes down to what you want, and if it is really true that you want to take on a new boat, getting it up to snuff for you, dealing with the soft deck spots, if any, and all the new increased costs. The bigger boat will have a lot more room, be more comfortable, is reputed to be a nice sailing boat, and faster. Flip a coin, if you don't like how the coin directs you, then choose the other option. It's a lovely problem to have, how lucky you are to have not been financially injured by the pandemic, and in the position of considering a much bigger boat.

Ann

+1 to Ann!
If you want another boat, bigger, faster (maybe… think again how fast you’ll get in reality) we can’t help you much except reminding one more time about the intended ACTUAL use, crew availability and capability, learning a new boat and her problems…. Will all that justify the investment and added complexity?
This is a multi factor consideration subjective process (in spite of all the emotional factors) only you can honestly answer.