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Old 30-09-2021, 13:24   #1
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Talk me out of a new boat.

Story time. I grew up on a Hunter 37c. It was the first thing I sailed, since then I have sailed Swans (rocket compared to the hunter@40'), Hunter 49, Jeanneau 54 and 57, and for the last 5 years a Columbia 9.6 that I have done significant updates on.

I sail on the great lakes, so the 31' columbia has been easy to find room for and has few faults. Biggest faults are lack of chain locker and bow roller, lack of propane stove, and being generally cozy compared to designs newer than 1976. It is also a bit slow. If I plan a trip, I have to base it on 3.5 kts. That said, in ideal conditions, she can really scoot. I have seen 6ks commonly and 9 going a bit downwind in a gale.

What I need to be talked into or out of is a C&C 40 AC https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cc-40-2-ac. My main gripe? Aside from needing a bigger, more expensive slip, is the 7 foot draft vs. my current 5.5'. Bigger boats are always exponentially more expensive, but I'm hopeful that this would be otherwise ideal. It has a great layout both inside and out and seems to be thoughtfully engineered for both livability and speed. Hull speed on this works out around 7.5 knots, greatly increasing my chances of a good cruise at 5-6knots average. I could plan more interesting trips. Maybe do some racing.

Any C&C knowledge or experience would be helpful as it is a make I see a lot, but this is the first I really liked.
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Old 30-09-2021, 15:05   #2
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

There were several C&C 40's in our area in the mid 1980's. They were popular and successful, both as cruisers and racers. They are nice boat, good sailing characteristics (moderate in every respect) and certainly capable of cruising or racing.

This is a powerful boat, meaning that when a breeze comes up you will want to reduce sail area before it becomes a handful. It will however be docile with a small headsail and a full or reefed main even in true wind speeds into the 20's. It's excellent rudder will make downwind sailing easy (and of course upwind will be delightful) and you will be in control at all times as long as you respect the wind strength by reducing sail area.

I owned a C&C (not this model) and it was a great sailing boat but there were quality issues.

Due to its age I would make sure that you have a good survery paying particular attention to the keel, rudder, chain plates and standing rigging, and particularly to the deck, (looking for soft spots where water has gotten into the core and repairs may be needed). All things repairable and most not even needed immediately.

Draft: 8 feet is not extreme for the Great Lakes. It will be a problem if you try to go down the Intercoastal waterway I think. But it will reward you with terrific sailing quality.

My own boat, a 43', has 8' draft. We took the boat around the world and we did not find draft to be a concern for us.
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Old 30-09-2021, 16:34   #3
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes View Post
Story time. I grew up on a Hunter 37c. It was the first thing I sailed, since then I have sailed Swans (rocket compared to the hunter@40'), Hunter 49, Jeanneau 54 and 57, and for the last 5 years a Columbia 9.6 that I have done significant updates on.

I sail on the great lakes, so the 31' columbia has been easy to find room for and has few faults. Biggest faults are lack of chain locker and bow roller, lack of propane stove, and being generally cozy compared to designs newer than 1976. It is also a bit slow. If I plan a trip, I have to base it on 3.5 kts. That said, in ideal conditions, she can really scoot. I have seen 6ks commonly and 9 going a bit downwind in a gale.

What I need to be talked into or out of is a C&C 40 AC https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cc-40-2-ac. My main gripe? Aside from needing a bigger, more expensive slip, is the 7 foot draft vs. my current 5.5'. Bigger boats are always exponentially more expensive, but I'm hopeful that this would be otherwise ideal. It has a great layout both inside and out and seems to be thoughtfully engineered for both livability and speed. Hull speed on this works out around 7.5 knots, greatly increasing my chances of a good cruise at 5-6knots average. I could plan more interesting trips. Maybe do some racing.

Any C&C knowledge or experience would be helpful as it is a make I see a lot, but this is the first I really liked.
So, you want a bigger, faster, more roomy boat, and you want us to talk you out of it? Maybe if we say everything good about the C & C, you'll remind yourself how much you like your Columbia. She's (the Columbia, I mean) cosy; lovely in a blow off the wind and efficient upwind, and has taken care of you for a while, now. A propane stove could be worked out for a lot less expense than a whole new boat to wrap around a propane stove. You can race any boat you have. Do they not have phrf in your area? [performance handicap racing fleet] Is there something else useful you might do with the $$ involved?

This really all comes down to what you want, and if it is really true that you want to take on a new boat, getting it up to snuff for you, dealing with the soft deck spots, if any, and all the new increased costs. The bigger boat will have a lot more room, be more comfortable, is reputed to be a nice sailing boat, and faster. Flip a coin, if you don't like how the coin directs you, then choose the other option. It's a lovely problem to have, how lucky you are to have not been financially injured by the pandemic, and in the position of considering a much bigger boat.

Ann
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Old 30-09-2021, 18:05   #4
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Thanks for your comments. I'm going to look at the boat Saturday. I'm pretty thorough with my inspections. The boat seems to be very reasonably priced, I suspect because it is a pandemic victim. It didn't make it back into the water for 2 years. The Columbia has been good, but I have been very good to it. I spent more on upgrades than I did on the boat itself, full raymarine electronics and chart plotter, Andersen self tailing winches, rebuilt cockpit seats, rigging, halyards, lines, paint, etc... If I keep her, I'm getting a flexofold prop and dripless packing this winter. If I'm feeling frisky, I'm replacing all the tankage except fuel, fuel tank was checked out a few months ago since I had to drain it anyhow when the gas dock blonde filled my tank with rec 90 instead of diesel, but I digress...

The increased speed and capabilities of the larger boat just may be too good to pass up, provided the service list on it is doable.
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Old 30-09-2021, 18:37   #5
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes View Post
Story time. I grew up on a Hunter 37c. It was the first thing I sailed, since then I have sailed Swans (rocket compared to the hunter@40'), Hunter 49, Jeanneau 54 and 57, and for the last 5 years a Columbia 9.6 that I have done significant updates on.

I sail on the great lakes, so the 31' columbia has been easy to find room for and has few faults. Biggest faults are lack of chain locker and bow roller, lack of propane stove, and being generally cozy compared to designs newer than 1976. It is also a bit slow. If I plan a trip, I have to base it on 3.5 kts. That said, in ideal conditions, she can really scoot. I have seen 6ks commonly and 9 going a bit downwind in a gale.

What I need to be talked into or out of is a C&C 40 AC

Any C&C knowledge or experience would be helpful as it is a make I see a lot, but this is the first I really liked.
It's been many years since we've surveyed a bigger C&C with fully balsa cored bottom that wasn't seriously compromised.

Scroll down to the first three bottom photos of a C&C 41 in Marine Survey 101 and see what I mean This is not unusual in this vintage of C&C now.
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Old 30-09-2021, 18:44   #6
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

What boat poker said.

I’m sure she sails like a dream.

What do you want? Low maintenance of a smaller boat, or comfort of a larger?

The draft is good for racing not good for cruising.

I think you know this. So go buy a Hunter.
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Old 30-09-2021, 19:18   #7
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

I didnít realize this boat had a cored hull, my little one doesnít.
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Old 30-09-2021, 19:21   #8
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

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I didnít realize this boat had a cored hull, my little one doesnít.
With a couple of special exceptions, all C&C's over 32' have fully cored balsa hulls. I believe they were the first to do this in production boats.
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Old 30-09-2021, 21:56   #9
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Every once in a while we hear from folks who have moved up to a bigger boat and then they lament the loss of a good boat that was easier and cheaper to keep, and had all sorts of good qualities, and memories, too. There's always going to be a prettier, and bigger, boat... with a shower... and a washer and dryer...
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Old 01-10-2021, 04:46   #10
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

More good points. I actually have an 83 hunter 37c right now, but the repair list is massive due to the incompetence of the previous owner or 2. They should have never been allowed near tools, nevermind power tools. I only paid 1k for it anyhow. Currently, my dad is using it. It would probably cost 25k to fix. Maybe more. Definitely more with a full set of correct sails. The hull is in great shape, as is the keel and mast, but the foredeck is soft on the starboard side, as is the cockpit sole. It gets water inside from somewhere I haven't found yet. Portholes were replaced with newfound metals ones. Engine mounts are shot. Engine runs great, but it should be pulled and accessories replaced or cleaned up. The previous guy replaced the water tanks, but used pine 2x4s to make new supports, and did install work using construction adhesive. His electrical work was borderline at best, and 1/3of the wiring needs to be pulled and run correctly. He did use correct wire at least.

I am curious about the cored hull on the C&C. Seems like a bad idea from the start. I'll definitely be taking my hammer with me.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:09   #11
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Quote:
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With a couple of special exceptions, all C&C's over 32' have fully cored balsa hulls. I believe they were the first to do this in production boats.


Oh now thatís a pity, I really like how my little one sails but would like a bit bigger. Maybe an old Dufour would do
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:06   #12
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Why this just this boat in particular? If the 7' draft bothers you, there is no shortage of similar sized monohulls out there with shoal drafts. I assume prices may fall a bit because it's getting close to the end of the season in the Northern US.

BTW, your title was confusing. I thought you meant a NEW new boat, not new to you boat!
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:13   #13
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

Quote:
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.........My main gripe? Aside from needing a bigger, more expensive slip, is the 7 foot draft vs. my current 5.5'. Bigger boats are always exponentially more expensive.........
Owned many sail and powerboats, now a 46 ft sailboat and 50 ft powerboat, and never found the bigger boats exponentially, only linearly, more expensive for berthing, bottom cleaning / painting, hull waxing, rigging and sails. Buy the largest sailboat you feel comfortable sailing that fits your budget and has the space and amenities you require.
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:36   #14
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

I agree with the above post (13).


I moved up to a bigger boat.



55ft x 14ft6ins x 8ft 9ins. A monster, compared to the ex boat’s 37ft x 10ft x 5ft.

I haven’t regretted it. Yes, there is an awful lot more of her at this time of year. Yes, sails and rigging and things charged by the square foot or metre cost more. But the increase in things charged by length isn’t so bad, really.
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:54   #15
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Re: Talk me out of a new boat.

You donít say the price and I guess once you have viewed the vessel at lot turns on need for new diesel ,new rigging,sails, electrics etc. I also guess the draft issue rather depends on your sailing area but also consider how that might influence future purchaser. Also do you think the sail area is enough for your sailing needs ? Will it be a boat that only goes in a blow hence you motor more etc. Also you donít mention your crew strength but everything gets heavier and in absence of power winches more tiresome if not tiring. Will it have a proper reefing set up ? I guess having sailed many larger vessels once viewed it depends on the time and money you have to throw at would could under the skin become a project boat.
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