Single or dual rudder?

[Jimmyb57]

I'm looking at a Bene 37 or 38 for inland lake sailing. Biggest difference is single helm/rudder on the 37 vs dual helm/rudder on the 38. Any benefits or drawbacks to consider?

[barnakiel]

When there is a single rudder, you get help from prop flow over the rudder. When there are two rudders and the prop is one, you get no such help.


When there are two steering wheels and the transom is open, you can access cockpit and cabin without passing round the helm, which is some factor if you are always stern-to. Mind this is often marred by a center table in the cockpit.



b.

[LLCoolDave]

If you like to race I can see the advantage of dual helm and rudder. If you are just day sailing on a lake, it's overkill.

[Sam Woodbridge]

Originally Posted by Jimmyb57

I'm looking at a Bene 37 or 38 for inland lake sailing. Biggest difference is single helm/rudder on the 37 vs dual helm/rudder on the 38. Any benefits or drawbacks to consider?

I was really hoping this thread would have took off. I’m very curious what people are saying who own a twin rudder system. I’ve read people saying they like the rudder grab while sailing, but my question is this.

How well do twin rudder systems work in a marina docking your boat without prop wash? Is a bow thruster a must have for a twin rudder sailboat??

I don’t want to highjack the OP, but Jimmy we both are in the same situation. I’ve looked at the 37 and the 38.1. I’m absolutely wanting the 38.1, but that’s not over the twin rudder and steering wheels. It’s over a lot of other things too. I’ll be living aboard weeks at time doing coastal sailing.

Good luck - if you buy please make a post.

And a bump for any answers to the pertaining questions.

[B23iL23]

Almost all twin rudders boats I've been on need either a bow thruster or plenty of speed to get you into the dock. If you have a thruster, center the wheel and us the BT to steer. You don't need a lot of speed but probably a little more than you think.

Without a BT then you need speed before the rudders grip and for this you will need practice. If you have helm mounted engine control it makes it easier as yo don't have to reach down.

It's not a problem either way. Just takes practice and nerve.

Originally Posted by Sam Woodbridge

I was really hoping this thread would have took off. I’m very curious what people are saying who own a twin rudder system. I’ve read people saying they like the rudder grab while sailing, but my question is this.

How well do twin rudder systems work in a marina docking your boat without prop wash? Is a bow thruster a must have for a twin rudder sailboat??

I don’t want to highjack the OP, but Jimmy we both are in the same situation. I’ve looked at the 37 and the 38.1. I’m absolutely wanting the 38.1, but that’s not over the twin rudder and steering wheels. It’s over a lot of other things too. I’ll be living aboard weeks at time doing coastal sailing.

Good luck - if you buy please make a post.

And a bump for any answers to the pertaining questions.

[ben373]

I have a twin wheel and rudder boat. Dufour 310GL I have owned this boat for 2 years and had several single rudder boats upto 40'

The advantages are;
_ The boat wont roundup as there is always 1 rudder in the water
- Vision is better
- Responsive to the wheel
- Space in the cockpit
- Access really good.
- Single handing improved
- Backing up works well

The downsides
- chance of fouling
- more drag downwind
- more to go wrong

I don't miss prop wash
Overall i like it.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Sam Woodbridge

(...)



How well do twin rudder systems work in a marina docking your boat without prop wash? Is a bow thruster a must have for a twin rudder sailboat??


(...)

If you are docking backwards, it is very similar to a single rudder, or at least I did not notice any major difference.


But in forwards gear you cannot spin the boat in place anymore.



Now the bow thruster is a separate matter and if the marina is difficult (narrow alleys, cross-current, strong winds, etc.) then it is help on any kind of hull with any number of rudders.


b.

[Sam Woodbridge]

B23iL23, Ben373, and Barnkiel

Thank you for those fast replies. Such helpful information.

Sam

[Dr. D]

My current boat is twin rudders, twin wheels, and sail drive. This setup is much easier to handle than a traditional single rudder, single wheel, and shaft drive.


Maneuvering at low speed is excellent. Not only do I not miss prop walk and prop wash, I don't want either in a boat. Prop walk may be great IF it rotates your boat in the direction needed. Prop wash is nice, but the twin rudders grab soon enough that it is not a loss. In reverse the boat handles like a sportscar.


Twin wheels make the cockpit much more open. My boat has a cockpit table with handholds on either end, making moving about the cockpit safe when the waters are agitated.


No bow thruster needed, at least in the OC 35.1. I know a couple with the OC 38.1 with no bow thruster and they don't seem to have issues.

[Sam Woodbridge]

That’s great to hear Dr. D. I’m super glad your happy with your 35.1. It is a very nice boat.

Sam

[Nicholson58]

Good points made above. I believe the dual rudder became necessary when the more recently designed boats were made with extremely wide transoms, light weight and pretty flat. When the boat heeled the top of the rudder was tilted partially out of water. The solution was to locate two rudders at about the optimum heel angle and at the point that would still be in the water.

Older skinny transom boats such as mine would have no need for a second rudder. I do rely on prop wash to maneuver our big heavy beast in close quarters.

Depending on how dual helm and rudder is executed, it can be an installed spare. If there is too much sharing the whole thing could fail as a unit.

[Sam Woodbridge]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Good points made above. I believe the dual rudder became necessary when the more recently designed boats were made with extremely wide transoms, light weight and pretty flat. When the boat heeled the top of the rudder was tilted partially out of water. The solution was to locate two rudders at about the optimum heel angle and at the point that would still be in the water.

Older skinny transom boats such as mine would have no need for a second rudder. I do rely on prop wash to maneuver our big heavy beast in close quarters.

Depending on how dual helm and rudder is executed, it can be an installed spare. If there is too much sharing the whole thing could fail as a unit.

Ya Nicholson, I agree with you that a wide transom boat needs two rudders, but to what extent I don’t know. Being other newer boats have adopted the wide transom idea, but without two rudders. I’ve wondered long and hard about it.


Sam

[daletournier]

Coastal sailing I'd prefer single rudder, more maneuverability in marinas etc.

Ocean sailing I'd prefer twin rudders, better tracking in big swells particularly when surfing, the leeward rudder grips better as you start to heel or round up abit.

Modern design is often faster and they surf more, twin rudders are a natural evolution of modern design.

I have twin wheel single rudder. My twin wheels give me steering cable redundancy.

[yesthatsue]

Modern production Beneteaus, Jeanneaus, and similar boats of that style have racer-y hulls, fin-and-bulb keels, and unprotected spade rudders. It's the last bit that would make me hesitate about one offshore, but A) they're made of stronger materials nowadays, and B) having two rudders reduces the chance that you'll have both of them fail or be sheared off. If you're not racing (and if you ARE racing, you'll want the First, not the Oceanis), the twin rudders won't give you a big performance boost, but I'd still have them for redundancy.

[thinwater]

If you ever bend, break, or jam a rudder, twins can be really handy. Been there, done that.


(you just disconnect the one that is giving the trouble and sail home)