Rigging question

[fireant]

Some of you know that we purchased a 1978 Oday 27, we have it for about a year and a half.
Last time we took it out on a sail I noticed that on the starboard standing rigging at the top one strand is broken. I can see it sticking out about a foot to a foot and a half. I don't know if it broke off inside the fitting or it broke in the middle of the strand.
It's my first boat and obviously I'm very worried not sure if I can take it out or what the next step should be.
Got one over the phone estimate between 5-$6,000 to do the repairs change all the rigging halyards and what else is needed. He said I might save about $2,000 if I do some of the work myself. I was also told that the mast will have to come down and he will need about two weeks. What kind of work would that be that I could do on my own? Im not afraid to work and know my way around tools. Just never done any rigging.
I Also need to do a bottom paint. Main sail is stretched some, but i could sail for a lot longer as is. The boat needs some work.
I would hate to get rid of the boat We really like it a lot. its so easy to sail and fun. We still have half a tank of fuel from the time we motored it north to where we keep it at Oxnard. It almost runs on air only.
But no idea if it's worth it to invest all this money. With the idea that we might sale it next year if we can go cruising.
Any advice.

[nightowle]

Certainly, get more quotes to compare. The rigger may be asking you to do some swagging (attaching wire to the fittings - perhaps turnbuckles), but you'd need some specialized tools. They aren't outrageously expensive. For peace of mind alone, you'd want to fix that starboard shroud at a minimum. But the evidence now points to an impending or unseen failure in other areas of the standing rigging. I had a 1975 O'Day 27. They are such sweet sailing boats. From time to time I miss it.

[Manateeman]

Go online and watch people assemble Sta-Lok fittings. Buy the fittings and wire.
All you have to do is match piece by piece.
This is not brain surgery.
Mark

[TrentePieds]

fireant said: "...on the starboard standing rigging at the top one strand is broken. I can see it sticking out about a foot to a foot and a half....not sure if I can take it out or what the next step should be."

Don't get tied in knots over this. It's a common enuff problem on 50YO boats. It's easy to fix as Mark (Manatee) has told you without being too specific.

I believe that holding up you mast there are three wires on each side of the boat. Rising from the side of the deck of the boat, two wires go up and join the mast just under the spreader bars. I call those wires the "shrouds". Between those two, a third wire rises up to the top of the mast and halfway up this wire is held out from the mast by the spreader bar. I call this wire the "topmast shroud".

Your description indicates that one "strand" out of the 19 of which that wire is made up has broken. This means that the whole topmast shroud needs to be replaced. It's easy to do. As the bottom of the TMS a fitting with a forked end is held on to the "chainplate" (which is fixed to the hull of the boat) with a "clevis pin". This pin slips through the holes in the end fitting on the TMS and the chainplate.. At the top of the mast there is a fitting called a "tang" that is just like a chainplate. Again, the end fitting on the TMS will be attached to the tang by means of a clevis pin.

You take the whole TMS off the boat and make up a new one using the things Manatee has told you about, making sure that the length of the new one is just the same as that of the old one. You can do it all yourself. Total cost shouldn't be more than a few hundred bux. This sort of thing is just part of ordinary maintenance and unless you're made of money, you need to learn to do these things yourself.

There is NO need for the mast to come down to change a TMS on an O'Day27!

Pay attention to what Manatee tells you. I might have a bit to add as well :-).

All the best

TrentePieds

[Sailmonkey]

You can easily re-rig that boat for a lot less than the quoted amount. I spent less than that on a 32’ ketch re-rig!

For one shroud, using hi-mod fittings with new wire you’re looking at $203 for parts assuming 40’ of 7/32’ wire, an eye and stud.

[hlev00]

In addition to more quotes to re-rig it would be worth finding out how much a rigging survey would cost. There could certainly be other things you will encounter like problems at the spreaders or chainplates. Then if the only problems are the with the standing rigging consider doing the work yourself as others have suggested. Don't be in a hurry though. I would not sail it until at least the starboard shroud issue is resolved.

Harry

[fireant]

Thanks for the advice.
Where would be a good place to order the parts that I would need?
what manufacturer should I look at?
Any good You Tube videos to watch?
What is a good way to get to the top of the mast?
I expect a small boat would swing side to side a lot more with me on the top then a larger boat.

Thank you everyone, from looking for a boat to now repair it everyone was a huge help.

[kayakerChuck]

I paid $2200 for new standing rigging on my O'Day 30 this past March. (be aware- the cost of stainless steel is skyrocketing!) I brought in my old stuff, my local shop duplicated it. Easy, and the cost was not much more than it would cost me to buy the parts.

I dealt with Offshore Spars. They also sell parts & supplies.

[stormalong]

Unless the mast is keel stepped I would not recommend replacing the rigging with the mast standing. Are you up to the task of going to the masthead and removing each shroud one at a time, using a halyard as a temporary shroud? Also, about every ten years the mast should come down for inspection of the mast step and the parts of the mast you cannot see.

If your local yard can pull the mast the rest is pretty easy. Take the shrouds to a rigging fabricator and have them replicate it. There is always some stretch in new wire and the lengths of the shrouds should be adjusted to be tight with the turnbuckles 2/3 open. So before you unstep the mast look at each turnbuckle and decide if the shroud needs to be shorter. Label each shroud and supply a correction list to the fabricator. It may be a good idea to rewire while it it down.

Not knowing how old the standing rigging is, when one segment goes it is usually time to replace it all. If you can contact the previous owner and find out the age of the shrouds and they are less than 10 years old you can keep them. Keep in mind that your insurance company will deny coverage on mast failure with older shrouds.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by fireant

Thanks for the advice.

Where would be a good place to order the parts that I would need?

what manufacturer should I look at?

Any good You Tube videos to watch?

What is a good way to get to the top of the mast?

I expect a small boat would swing side to side a lot more with me on the top then a larger boat.



Thank you everyone, from looking for a boat to now repair it everyone was a huge help.

I’ve always bought my rigging “stuff” from

https://www.riggingandhardware.com/

Not affiliated, just happy with their pricing and selection.

[JBP]

I agree you should bring the mast down. It's not that hard, just find a mast crane somewhere, marinas that haul boats have one.

You need to inspect all the other shrouds and stays, your boat has 8. 3 on each side (2 lowers and one upper that goes through the spreader all the way to the top), forestay, and backstay.

Once you choose which ones you are replacing, you can

A) take them off and bring/send them to a rigger to replace who will probably use swage fittings because they are cheap if they have a swaging machine.

B) Buy the cable and fittings and replace them yourself. Sta-Lok and Hi-Mod fittings are DIY and stronger than swaged, but cost over $40 each.

[JBP]

I've also bought online from https://www.riggingandhardware.com/ and they have everything you need to do it yourself.

[fireant]

When getting the boat, I did speak the previous owner and the rigging is older than 10 years I would say closer to 20 years old.
biggest problem I got is that I work a lot so need to figure it out with time.

any good YouTube videos that would take me step by step?

One of the reasons I didn't want a fixer upper is lack of time on my part.
If I can do it in two weekends or so, it would work for me.

[SV_FlyingTigress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qDgI5fyWtk

Also this for general context on swaged fittings:


https://stingysailor.com/2019/01/19/...replacement-2/

[Manateeman]

We do two things just a bit different from the videos. There is a small washer like item called a former which helps to bend the wire. Once in place, it’s difficult to get anything to grip them. We put a fine layer of Tef-Gel on them. If you want to remove them and replace the former and the wedge or cone, all you need to do is pour a little thinner in and wack the fitting against a wood block and the former will come out. Sta-Lok recommends new formers and wedges. We’ve asked exactly why new formers, but no reply. Anyway...we also Tef-Gel the threads because stainless threaded parts have a nasty habit of welding themselves together and the Tef-Gel prevents it.
We take a bit of time smoothing off the ends of each wire as we use a grinder to cut the wire. The process looks complicated until you do a few. No need to overtighten which can causes problems. The geometry is where the strength lies, you don’t need King Kong arms. Use a proper wrench, not an adjustable to avoid rounding off the nut.
You can see in the videos, riggers put these fitting together with their favorite goop. We fill with Tef-Gel now. We are not saying our method is the ideal one. Each to his own. It’s what works for us. Never had one loosen up, bind up or get corroded. We do check them but the Tef-Gel does not wash out and so far, it’s stopped the corrosion damage completely. This is not what the factory recommends...it just how we do ours.
Measuring carefully and taking your time is all you need to save a lot of money.
Happy trails.
Mark and the manatee crew.