Removable Inner Forestay - Advantage?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...
Now what I'd like to see, is an equally profound description, explaining how the term " head" is used for the loo.

The term “head” [‘heafod’ in Old English], used for a marine toilet/lavatory, started because of the location of the toilet, on the earliest sailing ships.
For crewmen, the facilities were located at the head [bow] of the ships, near the base of the bowsprit, where splashing water served to naturally clean the toilet area. The front of ships had a figurehead: a carved wooden figure, fitted on the bow of the ship.
The earliest example of this usage in the OED is from A Cruising Voyage Round the World, a 1712 book by the English sea captain Woodes Rogers: “He begg’d to go into the Head to ease himself.”
➥ https://www.history.navy.mil/researc...ps-toilet.html

[MicHughV]

From time to time I have landlubber guests onboard and when I explain to them how to use the " head" I get quizzical looks from them. Men are encouraged to use the stern rail, but women do not enjoy this luxury and must learn about the intricacies of operating the "head".

[The Yacht Rigger]

I like to setup inner forestay/staysails on a code zero furler with a structural anti torsion cable built into the luff.
The entire system is stored in a bag until needed, and hoisted using a 2:1 halyard. So there is never a stay potentially clanging around or needing to be stored aft when you want it out of the way, it's just a 2:1 halyard clipped to the mast base or similar when the system is not in use.

A snap shackle under the furler, and quick connect furling line leads means all you have to do to setup the sail is hoist it and run the furling line and sheets back to the cockpit, then you can furl and unfurl from the safety of the cockpit in the likely heavy weather you will be using the sail in.

The code furler can also be dual purpose if you have a light wind reaching sail to use it with - since it quick connects to the tack and head of the staysail.

[Bellinghamster]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

I like to setup inner forestay/staysails on a code zero furler with a structural anti torsion cable built into the luff.
The entire system is stored in a bag until needed, and hoisted using a 2:1 halyard. So there is never a stay potentially clanging around or needing to be stored aft when you want it out of the way, it's just a 2:1 halyard clipped to the mast base or similar when the system is not in use.

A snap shackle under the furler, and quick connect furling line leads means all you have to do to setup the sail is hoist it and run the furling line and sheets back to the cockpit, then you can furl and unfurl from the safety of the cockpit in the likely heavy weather you will be using the sail in.

The code furler can also be dual purpose if you have a light wind reaching sail to use it with - since it quick connects to the tack and head of the staysail.

This setup seems rather ideal (with the exception of added potential failure points in the "tension" lineup), and similar to what I was thinking of setting up. Do you hoist this on a masthead halyard or something lower?
If masthead, then a full height heavy weather sail?
If lower, then running backs (intermediates?), too?
I sometimes miss the club-boomed handked-on staysail on our previous boat - simple and always ready so I used it whenever it made sense.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by grantmc

I notice quite a number of adverts with 'Removable inner forestay' as a feature.
Here's an example: https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...nt-39-9152838/

Please would the adults jot a few notes as to why this is an advantage, why/when you'd remove and of course put back. And in reality, when anyone ever actually would do so.

I had a removeable, but they can be quite complicated really. For one thing the length is too long to simply "take to the side and attach". So mine had a curved half tube type of thing it wrapped through and then fastened. The clevis was huge also.
Most my staysail boats I left the stay and staysail on, the sail hanked on in a custom deck bag, it was ready to use and it worked great.
Tacking through the slot never seemed to be a big issue if you knew how to do it. A matter of: timing the turn, release, backwind in the slot only, full release etc. But I had 115-120% high cut foresail on all 3 boats. (see avatar pic)

[Bellinghamster]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

I like to setup inner forestay/staysails on a code zero furler with a structural anti torsion cable built into the luff.
The entire system is stored in a bag until needed, and hoisted using a 2:1 halyard. So there is never a stay potentially clanging around or needing to be stored aft when you want it out of the way, it's just a 2:1 halyard clipped to the mast base or similar when the system is not in use.

A snap shackle under the furler, and quick connect furling line leads means all you have to do to setup the sail is hoist it and run the furling line and sheets back to the cockpit, then you can furl and unfurl from the safety of the cockpit in the likely heavy weather you will be using the sail in.

The code furler can also be dual purpose if you have a light wind reaching sail to use it with - since it quick connects to the tack and head of the staysail.

This setup seems rather ideal (with the exception of added potential failure points in the "tension" lineup), and similar to what I was thinking of setting up. Do you hoist this on a masthead halyard or something lower?
If masthead, then a full height heavy weather sail?
If lower, then running backs (intermediates?), too?
I sometimes miss the club-boomed handked-on staysail on our previous boat - simple and always ready so I used it whenever it made sense.

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by Bellinghamster

This setup seems rather ideal (with the exception of added potential failure points in the "tension" lineup), and similar to what I was thinking of setting up. Do you hoist this on a masthead halyard or something lower?
If masthead, then a full height heavy weather sail?
If lower, then running backs (intermediates?), too?
I sometimes miss the club-boomed handked-on staysail on our previous boat - simple and always ready so I used it whenever it made sense.

Typically from a dedicated staysail halyard location on a cutter rig. If the rig is not already setup to be a cutter, then yes, runners or checkstays/aft intermediates can be added, it really depends on the rig. We install a sheave box and a pad eye/tang for the dead end of the 2:1 halyard.

[Happ]

James Baldwin who has done 2 circumnavigations on a Pearson Titan has a Baby stay that has 3 positions. First position is forward and is used for a staysail or storm sail. Second position is just in front of the cabin. It acts as an extra forestay should the forestay fail. The third position is by the shrouds when it is not in use. Local sailing and short coastal sailing.

[argonauta1]

Perhaps I missed it but I see no mention of running back stays. If the inner forestay is taken from the mast head, to prevent mast pumping and to offset the stresses generated by a storm jib on the mast, Usually they are needed. That is unless the inner forestay is secured at the mast about halfway between the lower spreaders and the mast head. That is what we did and never had a mast pumping issue. It was detachable at the base with a Forestay Quick Release Lever and could be stowed at the mast. As to its deployment we were a cruising vessel and naturally gravitated to raising the inner foresail (storm jib) anytime we were on passage. Most of the time, we were on a single tack so having to partially furl the genoa before tacking was no particular inconvenience. With the gennaker (big drifter) the storm jib was simply left in place. When furled, we secured it to the dinghy which rode between the inner forestay to short of the mast (10 foot rib).

Oh yeah the yacht was a Beneteau 440. Many times we observed that the inner forestay was the most significant useful modification made to the rig. It served us well in many a big blow!

[Andrew Lippman]

I agree with all of the replies about the value of the inner forestay. When unrigged, mine was led through a half-moon arc at the bottom of the mast and pulled back to a padeye on deck. Out of the way. Offshore, it's comforting to have lots of rigging holding up the mast. I did what others do: hank on the storm jib or heavy air staysail and leave it on deck. Less frequent tacking offshore.

The advantages of this are many. Partway furling the Genoa is an awful shape and has the COE too far forward and full. Padding never seemed to help much. With the staysail, you can easily heave-to. Note, I also had checkstays so the mast was well supported where the stay meets the mast.

[nofacey]

I can see actually using a removable forestay when going offshore - reduces mast pumping in big seas, is the right place for a storm jib, and set properly, improves upwind performance in light - moderate winds.

I’ve sailed cutter rigs extensively, and seldom ever gone forward to walk a sail around. Tack main & staysail, but delay tacking the foresail till the belly goes into the slot, then let her fly & gather on other side.

[Icarus]

Inner forestays need running backstays...morbits and pieces to take care of.
IMO if your inner stay isn't connected 95% of the time one might as well not have one.
I used to own a couple of cutter rigged boats but hardly ever used the staysail and a fixed stay makes it impossible to jibe the jib pole.
Now I sail a true ketch wich are excellent for off shore work.
Stay away from in mast or in boom furlers, if things get stuck you might be in trouble.
It takes me 10 minutes to slab reef a main sail.

[lateral]

If you have lowers (Shrouds, fore and aft ) , can you rig a baby stay to the mast at the spreaders for heavy weather? Or would this induce pumping?

[CarinaPDX]

It seems to me that there is confusion here between cutter rigs with a jib and staysail, and sloops or slutters that add an inner forestay. These are very different problems.

For a cutter the forestay (that is attached at or near the stem) is normally permanently attached. Typically a yankee is flown as the headsail (jib) on the headstay in addition to the staysail on the forestay, and depending on the distance between forestay and headstay it should tack just fine. Adding a forestay release lever, as I did, allows the use of a large genoa or drifter that would otherwise be difficult to tack through the slot. When flying a genoa the staysail is rarely set. Since ocean sailing doesn't often require short tacking with a genoa up the lever only gets used close to shore, and in practice that is usually associated with racing.

Sloops sometimes have baby stays for mast support, which should probably not have a lever as the stay is required for strength. Sometimes an inner stay is added to have a second, alternative jib available (usually when both jibs are on furlers). With furlers you will probably not want a lever as the stay won't bend out of the way, although in this case the two stays are often closer together than on a cutter so tacking the headsail can be difficult. An inner forestay set further back, for flying a storm staysail, might sensibly use a lever. There are too many usages to make a definitive statement, but for me I would probably not spend the money if I were to make the decision again.

Greg

[barryglewis]

The first thing we did after buying Risky Business in 2013, formerly a racing yacht, was to change to a roller jib (about 110%), a separate trysail track fitted, and a removable inner forestay to take the storm jib, with runners. In 2015 we bought a staysail which we use for prolonged windward work in strong winds. The forestay being removable is very useful when sailing inshore with lots of tacking, and offshore with the wind aft of the beam, broad reaching, when the jib will occasionally be blanketed and flog against the inner forestay when set, a few thousand miles and the jib needed several patches!
As a 3/4 rig this means we have 2 sets of runners