Reinell 26 pulled downwind after upwind tack

[sparrrow]

Hi folks. Long time reader first time poster. We have a 1976 Reinell 26 we've owned and loved for about 3 years. It's great to motor around on and spend the night on, but sails worse than any cruiser I've ever been on. I've been told by a few fellow captains it's just poorly designed and there's no hope. I accept she won't win any races, but I at least want to sail it without stress. Here's my issues.

1. On an upwind haul, when I tack, the wind will catch the sails after I come about and keep turning the entire boat downwind. I steer the rudder all the way windward yet the boat keeps spinning the opposite direction. Only way to compensate is to dump all the wind until I establish a little bit of momentum on my desired course then pull the sheets back in. It will do this with main only, or main + jib. I've never tried jib only.

2. no matter the course to wind she will hardly heel at all. maybe 10 degrees. Even in decent winds like 15+ kt. Perhaps this is a good thing? But I wonder if more heel would help me dig in a bit more.

3. I feel like the bow sits up way too high. You can see in the pics. Perhaps if I don't have enough surface pressure at the bow that can be an issue?

Please help me. All I want to do is tack and have the boat go the direction I steer it.

She does great running down or broad.

[rbk]

Steer through the tack gently. Sounds like you might be stalling the rudders or too much sail up. Also maybe try raking your mast back a bit. If you’ve already tried the mast and the steering thing try easing the sheets as part of your tack and firm them up when you come around.

[Don C L]

Welcome aboard sparrow! Now I haven't sailed a Reinell but I think you can get her doing better, regardless of what the locals have said First of all, you are right about all that weight aft. It is a very light boat so it will be very sensitive to the placement of weight. I am guessing it's you and a couple others and the outboard and fuel and maybe some other stuff aft and not much weight at all in the bow? Do you have the water tank in the bow? If so, fill it. See if you can balance the weight out a little better. But still it should tack. If you are tacking too slowly and you have a big genoa pulled in tight as you tack, before the boat has had a chance to accelerate, she will want to windvane around. Don't pull the jib or genoa sheet in too tight, too soon. Only tighten it up as you gain speed. If you don't have any tell-tales on the leading edge of the jib and main, they can be a good addition to see the airflow over the sails to see they are driving the boat. You'll want a nice big arc of a sail at first. It's like those STOL aircraft with wings with big flaps that create a huge camber in the wing for slow flight. Also, how is the rig tension? If the rig, the shrouds and stays, are too loose or halyard tension, or outhaul tension on the main, is too low, she won't sail well upwind. The mast may need more rake in it too as rbk mentioned. I am not familiar with the Reinell rig, but a little more rake will give a little more weather helm too, that is, make her want to round up more. Hope that helps.

[danielamartindm]

I agree, the vessel appears to have more windage forward than aft, and there's little you can do about that besides reducing foresail before you tack. The more wind you're dealing with, the more you'll have to reduce that jib's area to allow the rudder to be more effective. Also, try to get up a goodly amount of momentum before you come through the wind, and avoid extreme rudder positions that essentially negate the rudder's effectiveness. It's easy to say that the vessel looks underpowered and out of balance without a detailed analysis, but try reducing that headsail area, even when underway with the wind forward of the beam; you won't have to reef the jib then each time you tack, your rudder work underway will require less muscle, and your loss of speed through the water will be nominal. I would ask a rigger to look at your specific situation to see if your sail plan or standing rigging could economically be tweaked to restore balance.

[Yellowtulip]

Is that the right mainsail? It looks a little small, or perhaps it's reefed in the photo. I would want a longer-luffed jib than that, too.

[Jim Cate]

Haven't seen or been on a Reinell 26 for something like 50 years, so can't remember details. What sort of swing keel or centerboard does she have? And when you are attempting to tack, how is that appendage set? If it isn't fully extended, it both lacks much lateral resistance and has the center of resistance moved aft, both of which could add to your problems.

So, when preparing to tack, keep boat speed up as much as you can, even easing the sheets slightly and bearing off a few degrees. Get the boat through the wind quickly, but don't fully sheet the genoa... leave it trimmed as for a close reach, and don't put the rudder hard over (too much drag when you have big rudder angles). If you can get the boat to accelerate up to speed, then start bringing her up into the wind, but gently.

Oh, one other question: is your bottom dirty? That can have a huge effect upon speed and acceleration.

As you have noted, your boat is not a great sailor, but it should be able to accomplish the basic sailing maneuvers without difficulty. So, there is something wrong with either your technique or the boat itself. Keep working on it and reporting to us. One of us will be able to get to the bottom of it!

Jim

[barnakiel]

Start with making sure the board is down. If the board is accidentally locked in anything but the lowest position, this will result in what you described (the boat falling off after a tack).


Too many heavy people in the cockpit, the same story BOW UP and off the wind she goes ... A WATERTANK in the bow can balance crew weight in the cockpit.


Do not heel her too much. This makes things worse. 5 to 10 degrees is OK and beyond this you gain nothing.


Make sure you go into the tack sailing fast and make the tack 'soft' turn rather than a very sharp one. Avoid using the helm to force a tack. The blade, if turned too far, becomes a brake.


Go sail some, apply some advice. Let us know if it is better now.



Cheers,
b.

[FabioC]

Steer gently into the tack, ease the (old) jib sheet early, so the jib does not back wind and does not push the bow leeward on the new tack. As soon as the boat is in the wind, steer to stop the turning momentum.
Above all, let the jib luff for a few seconds on the new tack, until you feel the force of the main bringing you up and you have regained some speed, and only then trim the jib.

[TrentePieds]

Sparrow,

The Reinell 26 was very much an "entry level" boat, even when she was new. Nevertheless you can have a lot of fun in one, particularly for lake sailing which I take it is what you do.

So let's see if we can make it a little less stressful for you :-)

Firstly, judging by the pic, she's down by the stern quite substantially. Because that has the effect of moving the Lateral Centre of Resistance aft, it will cause the boat to behave just as you describe. So you gotta fix that. Take all gear out of her and see how she floats after that. She should be on her lines. If she's STILL down by the stern, have someone clamber right up into the bows of 'er, and see what that does. If one person in her forepeak doesn't bring 'er to her lines, there is something quite wonky and we'll have to talk again.

If that does the trick, bring the person back out and substitute something like water containers full of water. Four 5 gallon jugs weigh about the same as one standard people :-) Now put your clobber back aboard, but make sure it's distributed so she will still float on her lines.

Now for technique, and forgive me if I tell you something you already know :-) By virtue of her hull design squeezing in more interior volume than she has any right to have, she'll be "stiff", i.e. resistant to heeling, but on the other hand she has a reasonable area of sail for her displacement, so provided she's on her lines she should handle alright.

Put her on a beam reach so that the APPARENT wind is directly on the beam. Make sure your centerboard is ALL the way down. Ease out you mainsheet till the "luff" (the edge of the sail by the mast) JUST collapses and blows in towards you. Then harden the sheet till the luff JUST fills again. Now do the same with the jib. That will give you maximum speed for the given wind speed.

Now head her up towards the wind so the APPARENT wind (" the AW") is about 10ºs forward of the beam. Do the schtick with the sails again. She should keep going without loss of speed.

If so, come up another 10ºs. If she's still "footing", do the same again. And if she is still going good after that, do it one more time. Now you should feel the speed slacking off. If so, "bear off" (turn away from the wind) just a bit and trim your sails again.

NOW you are ready to "come about" (change tack). She has a transom hung rudder that will deflect FAR too far and begin to act like a brake. So watch your tiller! The deflection should be no more than 10ºs. With that deflection, if she's footing, she should swing through the eye of the wind quite effortlessly. Just as she does so, you release the jibsheet and let it fly. Do nothing with the mainsheet. As the mainsl fills on the new tack, you center the tiller and harden up the jibsheet till the luff of the jib JUST fills, and you should be away on the new tack with very little loss of speed and the AW now about 30ºs forward of the beam.

That's the basic technique in a boat such as this. Tacks of 120ºs is about as good as she will do. With some tweaking and a lot of practice you might be able to make her tack in 100ºs

Have a go at it and let us know how you make out.

TrentePIeds

[sparrrow]

Thanks for all the replies! I'll try to address all of the questions and clarifications.

She is a fixed keel on 26 footer. shoal draft fin. The bottom was not dirty at the start of the sailing season when I splashed in but I'm sure it is now.

I had my issues even on the day that photo was taken with the sails up. That's my tiny working jib. I was solo and didn't quite get the main halyard pulled tight so I think that explains the wrinkles. It's a challenge to get the sails hoisted by yourself on a windy day on a boat with the halyards up on deck instead of fed to the cockpit!

I will also say that this happens with NO headsail. Main only and I'll still windvane around (that feels like the right term, thanks Don!)

I do agree the main seems small! There's no reefs in. It's a reinell OEM sail as indicated by the "R" but perhaps it came from the 22 footer? This is the first season I used this main because a friend found it tucked way back in my sail locker and told me it felt crisper. I will dig out the other main and measure it.

I will try some gentler tacks. I may be too used to our hunter 26 that can turn on a dime. Can't drive a school bus the same way you drive a hot rod I suppose. On that hunter there's alot of rudder pressure, but it does respond to the manuevers. I don't get much rudder pressure or response on the Reinell when there's lots of wind. I hadn't thought that pulling the rudder all the way to try to compensate might just be making it worse by slowing me down more instead of steering, that's great advice!

I do have a 30 gallon tank in the bow and I do keep it full. It sits toward the rear of the v berth though, right under the hatch...so like right between the portlights. I fear too center-mass to help offset the aft weight. Maybe I just need to shove a bunch of sandbags into the forepeak compartment. I hate to add unnecessary weight, but all I have in the aft is me, outboard, 5 gallons of fuel, and two batteries. Not much to shave away.

Jim, "basic sailing maneuvers without difficulty". That's all I really want!

[sparrrow]

Another member on this board @AprilHannah has my exact boat with a great youtube channel of their restoration progress. You can get a good idea of the hull and keel design from the first video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVrKsG5Ci8g

[KP44]

Some boats only sail well downwind. The 26' Bayliner Buccaneer is well-known as a wonderful boat except that it will not sail upwind.
I don't mean to rain on your party. There are trade-offs in everything. I used to use an electric trolling motor on our 23' Aquarius. The motor was as quiet as the sails and even the small trolling motor had sufficient power. That might get you upwind without the noise of an outboard.

[dakno]

Nice looking boat. I agree with everything I have head to this point, and just jibe.. jibe... so many people think jibbing is for losers , JIBE.

Enjoy your pretty boat

[dfelsent]

Square riggers couldn’t always tack. They would wear ship. IE jibe. I’ve done that in various boats over the years.

[Don C L]

"The Secret Sharer" By Joseph Conrad might be a fun read for this thread...
in case it is not clear, the last few paragraphs refer to tacking a large sailing ship in the dark close to land and not knowing if she has come around or not... until the "secret sharer" does the captain a tremendous favor...

edit, here it is for anyone interested...
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/220/220-h/220-h.htm