Pearson 26 extreme heel in a gust

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

To me, that does not look like a yankee but just a typical cruising genoa. A proper yankee's clew would be several feet higher than that of the sail shown and likely have less overlap. See attached photo (sorry 'bout the small size - I dunno how to make it bigger).

Jim

For the life of me I can’t see any substantial difference between the yankee in my photo and the one in yours. The cut looks identical, including the height of the clew.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

Yeah. I was wishing I had a wheel instead of a tiller. This is my first boat with a tiller that wasn't on an outboard.

You can react a lot faster with a tiller though. It's almost instantaneous It would be much slower with a wheel.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Suijin

For the life of me I can’t see any substantial difference between the yankee in my photo and the one in yours. The cut looks identical, including the height of the clew.

OK, my photo wasn't a very good one and so you could be right.

But how about the one shown in post 50? That one, a yankee according to Hood Sails, has a much higher clew, and that high clew is the definitive characteristic of the genre.

Jim

[john61ct]

Has the fact that many owners have reported their P-26s have these sorts of problems, come up yet?

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Has the fact that many owners have reported their P-26s have these sorts of problems, come up yet?

Not yet but I have read some posts to that effect elsewhere.

[john61ct]

I am sure high level skills can overcome almost any such issue, but that doesn't mean it isn't a design / build flaw.

From my notes, in narrowing down my boat wishlist:

"if a boat is a good boat, when real trouble comes she is best left alone. She knows better what to do than you, and if you leave her alone she will do the right things" Tony Marchaj

a vessel which will take care of its crew when the sea state gets rough, with the least tiring motion and best possible safety for its occupants

Has become very close to my top priority criteria

[Black Diamond]

A J24 is a very different boat than a Pearson 26. This boat likes to be sailed flat and is much more comfortable reaching than pointing tight on the wind. Many boats with the keel configuration of yours will take a 15-20% heel and then "click" into high gear. They get a bone in their teeth and just dig in with little additional heel until much higher winds come up.


I agree with the prior comments about just learning your boat and knowing when to reef. Its far easier to have the reef already in as its building than to try and do it when the reef is 25kts or more.



Rick

[kmahren]

You've gotten lot's of replies.... here's my 2 cents...


Popping the main (letting it out quickly) is the fastest way to right the boat and additionally you stay on course... rounding out into the wind takes a lot longer and scarier and at first accentuates the heeling, and takes you off course.... again, my 2 cents....

[petermjdavies]

We have had a 28 foot sailboat for nearly 30 years and have never been knocked down. That doesn't mean it never happens, but it is pretty unlikely in coastal waters. You've had lots of advice by others.

Mine would be to reef if you are expecting winds between 15-25 knots. And start with a smaller jib, letting it out if you get a sustained period less than 15 knots.

If you know that there are gusty conditions, then having someone monitor the mainsheet is a good idea. We would let down the traveller if the pressure is getting gradually higher. But be ready to dump the main sheet when the gust comes on.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, my photo wasn't a very good one and so you could be right.



But how about the one shown in post 50? That one, a yankee according to Hood Sails, has a much higher clew, and that high clew is the definitive characteristic of the genre.



Jim

Jim. Either you need glasses or I need better ones. That Hood picture looks about the same. The clew on my “yankee”, identical to the one in the photo I posted, is easily 12’ off the deck when furled out and trimmed in. You are talking about the clew and not the tack, right?

That said, I did hear another Valiant owner refer to it as a “jib topsail” so perhaps that is the correct name. I’ll investigate, but I would think a topsail would not have a tack at deck level or close to it.

[swordds]

I have an Alberg 30. With a 150 genoa and a full main I routinely pegged out my inclinometer at 45 degrees. I have switched to a 110 Jib/genoa and can sail more comfortably over a much broader wind range but I think a 120 or 130 genoa might have been a better compromise. As a singlehanded sailor I reef early and often if for no other reason then the practice (but I also sail through a lot of squalls). So a reasonably sized genoa (smaller than a 150 IMO) and a reefing system that you are very comfortable and experienced with using is my recommendation.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

One thing we noticed right off the bat is that my Pearson 26 performs beautifully in light air. I was literally sailing circles around him...I was making 3 – 4 knots of speed – could have done better but I purposely had the sails set trying to go slower so as not to get too far ahead. My nephew’s CS 22 was barely doing 2.5 kts. I have to admit, I was not happy to have to hold back but we were sailing together (it WAS kind of satisfying to be out performing my sailing teacher, LOL). Later in the day the wind picked up to 15 to 20 knots from SSW with higher gusts (we were trying to head SW!) and the seas built to 4 – 6 ft. I put a reef in and furled my genoa back. The CS22 really shined in the heavy weather and quickly outpaced me. I probably could have done better but since this was my first time sailing in those conditions I was being very conservative.

I’m not surprised the CS outsailed you in heavier air. Same waterline length, almost 60% lighter, and half her displacement is ballast. And 1’ deeper draft with the board down. What’s surprising is that it did not run rings around you in lighter air as well given those facts.

As for issues in heavy wind in a following sea, try dousing your main or at least throwing another reef in, then you can play easily with how much jib you have out. If the boat does not handle that well, try the reverse. Also, confine yourself to deep reaching, around 140 degrees. Anything deeper than that with the main up is going to be squirrelly in heavier wind. In truth your VMG is going to be higher tacking (er, gibing) at 140 anyway.

If you haven’t shortened sail by the time you pass 15 knots with that hull design you’re just going to start going sideways.

[captainmarknc]

Hey Capt. Rob!

If it's any consolation, our first boat was a 26' Pearson in the mid 1960's.

My dad said if we could knock that boat down in any wind, he would give any of us kids $100.00. That was a lot of money back then - especially for a kid!

We were on Long Island Sound and got our fair share of strong winds.

We sailed in some very tough conditions and never got close to knocking that boat down, beam sea 6 - 8 footers and strong winds. We buried the rail a lot, but that was it.

You own a very safe boat and I would certainly not worry about getting knocked down in anything short of a hurricane!

[Dockhead]

Be careful about just dumping the mainsheet, on a keel boat. You do want to reduce the angle of attack, but you do NOT want to increase the shape of the sail, which will increase power and drag -- the opposite of what you want in a gust.


The first control to use in a gust is the traveler. Letting down the traveler reduces the angle of attack without making the mainsail less flat.


In gusty weather, the mainsail should be trimmed relatively flat anyway, and even if you are sailing with the boom over the traveler, you should have the vang on to keep the boom from rising if you do have to let out the mainsheet to get the boom out beyond the end of the traveler.


In a bad gust, you want the mainsail as flat as possible, and then feather it -- turn it away from the wind to depower it. This won't work if the sail is not flat.



Another good thing to do in a really bad gust can be to head OFF, rather than up. Try it sometime.


DON'T set the topping lift to be putting any force on the boom -- this will take away force on the leech and neutralize the effect of the vang. The topping lift should always be slack except in certain very unusual cases, like sailing in wind so light that the boom all by itself, by its mere weight, is pulling too much shape out of the sail.





As to heel -- different boats with different hull forms, tolerate (or need) different levels of heel. On my boat, beyond 20 degrees is already Not Desirable, and 30 degrees is Do Not Exceed. But older designs tolerate more heel, and it's not unusual for some slender hulls with long overhangs to be OK with 30 degrees. You will have to experiment to find out for sure what is optimum -- but use rudder behavior and rudder pressure as your guide -- weather helm will go up as you heel, and you can feel excessive weather helm in excessive pressure on the helm and such that the rudder starts acting as a brake -- you can feel it. I display rudder angle on my instruments and use that as a key measure of sail trim and the need to reef, but you can do it by feel, too.


Good luck and let us know how you get on. And have fun!

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77

1. How about reefing down, single or double reef.

The above works. No need to over-think it.

As an aside:
I raced a Pearson 30 for 5 years. It was a quick boat, although not entirely fast. Laying it on the rail was often SOP & the weather helm was nutz. It was the 1st [& only] boat I ever did an unexpected gybe on, in 30+ knot winds no less...the memory still makes the hair stand on the back of my neck.

Be careful...if the 26 is anything like the 30, it likes that you pay constant attention to sail trim, et al.