Novice Sailor, looking for advice

[NWNate]

Looking for advice from some of the more experienced vets out there on potentially buying a new boat. Bottom line, my ultimate goal is to long-term coastal cruise, maybe even part-time liveaboard, but no desire (currently) for an ocean crossing.

I currently sail an '85 Catalina 22 (swing keel, pop top). I have been single-handing in the south Puget Sound for the past two years, and I have raced on another friends boat out of Tacoma several times. I am far from a great sailor, but I feel extremely comfortable single-handing my boat.

I got her a few years ago for next to nothing, in pretty decent sailing order, apart from a few things I had to re-rig and re-arrange in order to more easily single-hand. I had to purchase a brand new Merc 8hp which has been exceptional.

My immediate issues with the boat are the following: I have virtually no electronics/navigation aboard, no shore power setup, the mast wiring needs refit/repair. I have gotten by with these issues, mostly sticking to my inlet or not straying far from it, and just day-sailing. Also on my wish-list is a Furling Genoa (Currently set up for hank on) and a better navionics situation. The reason I want to upgrade is so I can actually do some weekending and explore the Sound in better fashion.

So my question is this: would you put several thousand dollars, by my estimate maybe even up to $10k, into a boat such as this, or would you look to upgrade to something more robustly set up for this style sailing? I looked at a newer 27-footer recently which was completely set up for Puget Sound sailing, I can probably get her for $30-35k.

I definitely see myself having a larger vessel one day, hopefully doing some coastal cruising, but I am not sure if now is the right time. I wonder if I should just invest in my own boat and keep "roughing" it. I have heard two schools of thought: 1. If you plan to have a larger boat in the future, start getting comfortable with one of comparable size now. Or 2. get really proficient at sailing on a small vessel before you upgrade.

If you have read this far, I thank you for your thoughts and input!

-Nate
'85 Catalina 22
"Tomcat"

[Don C L]

Hi Nate, Welcome aboard!
To answer your question, and this is only my opinion, I would not spend $10k to spruce up your boat, nor do I think it is necessary to do so to do the kind of weekending you'd like to do in that boat. For navigation I just use an app on my phone and it is great. For wiring the mast, is that for lights or a VHF radio antenna? Do you have a working VHF? If not you could get by with a handheld but VHF radios aren't much and you could go with a long antenna mounted on the stern. If your boat is safe and sailing now, why not just keep sailing? I would not get roller furling also because that is a lot of money for a boat like yours and for what you are doing. Save the big bucks for your next boat. If you want the furling for the convenience of dousing the sail you can do what I do and rig a line to pull the jib down from the cockpit.

However, now here is a caveat, are you using this boat as a trailer sailer? For example if you are taking it up to other places in the Sound or up to BC to explore that way, then yes, I'd say put a little more into the boat because it is doing more for you and is more valuable in that sense. I'd still hold off on the roller furling though.

Oh BTW I agree with option 2 in your post.

Good luck! Send photos!

[Jim Cate]

g'day Nate and welcome to CF.

Quite some years ago I bought Cat-22 hull number 61 from Frank Butler and sailed h er for around 7 years. Main exposure was in and around SF Bay. Ended up keeping her in the Emeryville marina for most of that time, for with sailing every weekend I was spending too much time upping and downing things and towing too many miles. But we did do several trips from Santa Barbara to the channel islands and a one month long cruise from Port Angeles to Vancouver and back and with ex wife and two small kids aboard. Also raced in the Bay, summer and winter, learning lots about sail trim and dealing with stronger winds.

Point of this boring recitation is that we did so with no radios, no shore power, no instruments beyond a compass and with hank on sails (added a reef point to the main and a small jib for heavy airs plus a 150% genoa and a symmetrical kite for racing). A home made Danforth type anchor was adequate and a tiny surplus inflatable dink got us ashore as needed. We had great adventures and endless fun as a family

My advice to you is to not spend lots of money "upgrading" your boat. As Don said upthread a phone or tablet with OpenCPN and free US charts will give you all the piloting aid that you need (a paper chart and a compass would do, too!) and a hand-held VHF if you feel the need to communicate when out of cell phone areas. A jib downhaul and halyard lead to the cockpit is a hell of a lot cheaper than a roller and will give you better sail shape as well. A decent size battery and LED running lights will keep you legal and lit below decks when you overnight (and a anchor light to hang up as well). A decent anchor, some 3/8 inch nylon and a few feet of chain will keep you in place whilst you sleep.

When you are pretty sure that you will be moving on from your current boat, remember that you will get bugger-all return for all the investment in upgrades when you sell her on. Save the money, let the lack of more sophisticated gear improve your seamanship learning process and get a few more sailing (rather than working on the upgrades) hours along the way.

BTW, I did a lot of single handing in that boat as well. Eventually rigged a sheet-to-tiller self steering setup that did a surprisingly good job of short term steering whilst I did the inevitable chores that crop up whilst sailing. A bit of research on your part might add a useful trick to your game and for damn little money!

Enough! good luck with it all...

Jim

[thomm225]

Also, if you look around you might find a good deal on a 27'-30' boat near you.

This is on the wrong coast but is a nice Southern Cross 28 for $6,000. These boats have circumnavigated.

There's also an Alberg 30 for near here in great condition for $10,000.

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/...719513751.html

For a bit more money ($25,000), a boat like this Cape Dory 25D is a good boat. It also has a trailer.

https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa...721713212.html

[Rocinante33]

Hi Nate

I too sailed a Catalina 22 swing keel, pop top for many years as a trailer sailor. Once took it from Islamorada to Key West and back. The boat is still in the hands of my niece who keeps it in the Puget Sound and uses it for day sails and the occasional overnighter.

I agree with Jim about the bare bones nature of sailing when the Catalina was conceived. You certainly can sail the coasts in that boat and I believe thwt a couple of hardy Cat sailors have crossed oceans.

But your question seems to be the pluses and minuses of buying a bigger boat. I made the decision years ago to move to a 30’ cruiuser and then once again upgraded.

The Cat 22 was fun and nimble but very basic down below. There was a car battery powering the very basic lighting and small chart plotter/fish finder. The power consumption was light enough to be supported by a small flexible solar panel that we pulled out every couple days to charge it. Eventually we put a Merc 8hp on the back that has a small alternator which can be used in the PNW where the solar is not so effective. It’s a very slow charge.

With a swing keel the whole rig draws less than 3 feet and you can go into a lot of shallow coves that are not available to bigger boats. Anchoring is easier and the Cat is light enough that you can kind of ‘feel’ your way in shallow rocky water in a way that is not possible with a heavier boat and a fixed keel.

It’s very, very spartan. Cooking is done in the galley with a tent camping stove on a table that drops to down to be the bed. Or on a cockpit Magma gas bbq. There is a small sink with a hand pump that owing to the age of the boat, drains directly to and from the sea. There is a small compostable head hidden under the v berth thwt gets (for obvious reasons) very little use.

We could probably double the battery capacity (to about 150 ah) but that would be it as stowage is limited. I can’t see how we could get any kind of refrigeration in there. Luckily in the PNW, a cooler works fine for weekends. Florida, not so much.

Eventually (actually very quickly after committing to ocean sailing) we upgraded to a bigger boat so that we could have, in no particular order, a head, a separate bed, room to lay out up front, more stability and at least of feeling of increased safety when out of sight of land, much more storage, a binnacle, sink, hot water, refrigeration, a dinghy, solar array, cockpit shower…..you get the idea.

The only drawback (besides costs) is that I can not even pretend to be bicoastal.

Only you know what you want and what you are willing to give up, but for me, the longer boat is good for weeks and months, the Cat was good for hours and days. My admiral has/had firm opinions as well.

Happy trails!

[NWNate]

Don,

I agree, $10k is a bit overboard. To be fair, I was overestimating a lot of costs associated with my wish list (i.e. things that I would LOVE to have, but I do not NEED).

For VHF, I do have one but the wiring and antenna situation needs to be gone through, so the handheld was in fact on my wish list. They are relatively cheap.

Great thought on the jib. I actually do have a downhaul rigged up. That was one of the first things I added when I stepped the mast!

I keep her in the water, although I have considered trailering her for other trips such as up to the San Juan islands. That would be my compromise to purchasing a more capable boat for those longer voyages (100-150 NM).

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...lbums6364.html

[NWNate]

Jim,

Great advice all around. As it so happens, I do have several of the items in place already being a new battery, a jib downhaul, and all lines led aft. I would like to figure out a "hack" to my anchor light, which is not functioning. I am thinking a battery powered LED strip going up the mast as a semi-temporary solution.

I will have to do some research on the sheet-to-tiller setup. I installed one of those tiller tamers, with the lines held by clam cleats. I have seen them set up with more secure methods, however I like using the clam cleats for a quick release if needed.

Cheers!

[NWNate]

Rocinante,

They are wonderful little boats. Obviously sacrificing many creature comforts, but can make up for it in numerous ways. I have often hit hull speed just under 6 knots in just 8-10 knots of breeze, blowing past some of the bigger boats in Budd inlet. And if I have two mates aboard, then we can almost completely negate excessive heeling.

Take care!

[thomm225]

Most folks with no anchor light atop the mast just use a strong lantern hung from the boom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66n6MKOXQFM

[Starbuck]

[M]y ultimate goal is to long-term coastal cruise, maybe even part-time liveaboard, but no desire (currently) for an ocean crossing.

I currently sail an '85 Catalina 22 (swing keel, pop top). I have been single-handing… for the past two years… I am far from a great sailor, but I feel extremely comfortable single-handing my boat.

Hi, Nate,

I've been there with the same boat, but for sure it was in worse shape. I advise that you install these small & cheap upgrades (some already suggested):

• Phone navigation app (the screen size of even an iPad Mini would be better) and a way to recharge.
• a plastic milk crate holding anchor, a boat-length of chain, & your anchor rode— carry it up to the foredeck, stow it away later
• jib downhaul— some quite-small-diameter line attached to the head of the jib, rove through every or every other hank, to a small snap-shackle at the stem where the headstay meets the deck, and run back to a small horned cleat, v-cleat or cam cleat on the cabin top (outboard of the pop top section) or to a spot on the side deck within easy reach from the cockpit
• hand-hald VHF, perhaps a rail-mounted antenna
• a way to lock the tiller when on upwind courses— this will force you to get better at sail trim— I used some index finger-diameter multi-braid line drawn across the cockpit & secured on the two stern cleats, w/ a couple turns around the tiller: lightly snug & you can adjust it just by twisting the turns on the tiller, and it can be pushed off the tiller in a wink when you need to take over.
• hang a low-draw, white all-around light in your rigging (I used an actual kerosene lamp hung above my boom, worked fine) Maybe something like this:
• battery capacity to get you through the weekend and for trying night sailing!( you'll need to unsure your red/green and white stern running lights work)
• cooler/camping stove, & a way to wash up

…and you'll be the master of your domain.

With little modifications like these I sailed my C22 on a dozen trips crossing ~25 miles open water to Catalina Island, then one summer a loop hopping 60 nm up the west coast from L. A. to the Channel Islands and straight out to Catalina on the way back (55nm of open water) on a ten-day round trip. It was a blast! I had experience similar to yours but had practiced anchoring until I felt confident, and slept like a baby (I woke up every two hours & went on deck to check my anchor set/weather, as babies do).

That little yacht capable of a lot more that you've used her for. Invest $250 to open up more of her potential.

P.S.— take the money you would have spent & save it up against the day you decide you've lost that lovin' feeling regarding your little first love. You'll know when that day comes, but I'm betting it won't be for a while yet.

[HC Sailing]

BENTE Yachts:
I am not sure if these boats are available where you live, but https://benteyachts.com/ have different models that sail very well, the smallest can be trailered and are very functional and comfortable.
Good luck with your adventure.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, NWNate,

Suggest you pick up a book about how to deal with electric stuff, and deal with your wiring. You'll possibly wind up with a few tools. So, don't cheap out on a multimeter, buy a good one: it will come with you when you do upgrade.

For very little actual investment, your little boat still has some things left to teach you, and perhaps among them is that you get to be inventive about your own comfort. If you don't have a rain awning, you might want one. Start with an inexpensive tarp. Then consider lighter weight, quieter materials, but either way it is nice to be dry while you cook!

If your sails are so old you don't know how old they are, then new sails would be a reasonable investment. New sails are crisp; old sails first lose that stiffness, then lose shape; and very old sails are soft and feel totally different in your hands. The boat will sail a lot better with new ones, hence your experiences will be more learning and likely, more fun. Fwiw, Jim found racing his to improve his sailing a lot.

As others above have said, good luck with it.