Need help with a bad purchase

[roryboy]

Hate to say it, but you got 'surveyed'. This is a live and learn experience. Never let the seller provide a survey or surveyor. This is going to cost you in the end. Make the best of it or bail on the vessel.

[boatman61]

Pay the man, he gave you a summation of his findings and indicated the true value of the boat.
Why should he be penalised for your failure to listen and stuffing up badly.

[ttex]

I would suggest paying and take it as a lesson learned.

I too have had several expensive lessons in first time boat buying. Consider it a right of passage.

[boatpoker]

Albert :
This from a surveyor ... you're screwed !

The police will have nothing to do with a civil dispute, a lawyer will cost you more than the boat and you would lose anyway.

You simply did not do enough (any) due diligence.

Here, learn a little bit about what a survey should look like before you try again.
Sample, Example Marine Survey Report

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

The attached PDF is in no way a survey, not even close... its a summary document of a casual glace at a vessel (I would be embarassed to try to pass that off as a survey and I'm not a surveyor). I wouldn't pay the survey fee either until an actual survey document has been delivered.

It’s brief, perhaps you like lots of words saying the same thing , it’s a reasonable purchase survey especially for 500 euros. It points out the main defects etc. foreign language surveyors tend not to fill surveys with flowery English.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It’s brief, perhaps you like lots of words saying the same thing , it’s a reasonable purchase survey especially for 500 euros. It points out the main defects etc. foreign language surveyors tend not to fill surveys with flowery English.

A good quality survey should state the defects in detail, provide photo evidence, list any standards that are not met where applicable, and list recommendations. etc. Or at least every survey I've had done has that type of format.. The PDF here definitely gives the impression that the survey was very, very, brief.

[jordanbigel]

Agree with the crowd - pay the man.

I'm wondering if this survey is so brief (it is brief) because it is just a bullet point summary of the actual survey, which was done in Italian?

Either way, the survey is clear about the serious issues with this boat. I would like to hear from the OP what other issues he found which were not listed in the survey - if the serious issues listed were not enough to make him walk, I can only imagine what other issues he found which were enough to make him cry foul.

My own experience was similar. In 1999 I bought a boat in another country, based on an extensive survey (of over 15 pages) and a 2 day visit while the boat was hauled out.

The survey listed dozens of minutiae (e.g. "loose doorknob aft head") but omitted the serious issues (leaking fuel tanks, corroded mast step, rusted and frozen seacocks, etc., etc.) - during the brief visit I made to the boat, I did not see anything not listed in the report. Suffice it to say that I did not have the knowledge then to do a thorough survey myself. The list of mistakes I made is long so I will omit them.

I also went through a "Sue the surveyor phase", for about 2 days, then I came to my senses and got on with it.

PS. The aft head doorknob is still loose...

[letsgetsailing3]

I think you pay the surveyor.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think you'd have done better to get the survey in the language of the surveyor, and translate it yourself. You'd likely have gotten a better product. Also a good idea to be there in person for the survey. It's amazing how much more information you get.

That said, this survey is enough to understand the basic condition of the boat.

Normally, it's better to get any repair estimates in addition to the survey, before purchase. Not so easy if you're buying a boat in another country, which is a reason not to do it if you don't have the time or presence in the foreign country.

[flee27]

Like has been said. Take your lumps and move on. Put the negative experience behind you and enjoy your new boat. Take pride in fixing her up and knowing your boat is solid.

Like they say...Lessons that aren't learned hard, are hardly learned.

I know I have learned many lessons well in my life.

Good Luck
Foster

[Rumrace]

Civil law 101 pay contracts.
A legitimate survey is produced in your chosen language.
If you signed a contract with a jerk you best be paying it. If you have not paid any money file a cancelled contract with the courts against the broker

[Lake-Effect]

I'm with the majority; you have to pay the surveyor, he did what you asked (more or less) and as sparse as the submitted doc is, it's sufficient to point out details that you could have used to drive down the price, or to bail on the boat.

You own it now, fair and square. You have 3 choices at this point:

1. beg the broker to take it back; there will likely be substantial penalty
2. try to sell it yourself, or give it away
3. figure out the minimum repairs necessary for you to be able to use it. Engine, obviously. The head. And anything that's structural or makes the boat unsafe. Plan on slowly completing the rest of the fixes (or not) as you enjoy the boat.

Buona fortuna, as they'd say over there.

[Bobby Lex]

Originally Posted by pcmm

A good quality survey should state the defects in detail, provide photo evidence, list any standards that are not met where applicable, and list recommendations. etc. Or at least every survey I've had done has that type of format.. The PDF here definitely gives the impression that the survey was very, very, brief.

A good quality survey for $500.00????

He got exactly what he paid for. [Well, since he hasn't actually paid for it, I guess he got what he agreed to pay for].

Bob

[Mlp48]

I'm SO sorry to hear this as I my experience with Italians was good. I suppose I was already wary -- by others who had tried to sell me the "last Rolex" but had 5 or 6 more literally up a sleeve.

I think you ought to try to sell it or gift it asap AND pay the surveyor and BE DONE WITH IT as you could spend any difference easily and be frustrated again with the language. .distance...expense.. and travel... other problems such as what was mentioned as "difficulty with the Port Director", etc.

I was involved a few months ago with a friend who found a horrible mess of a boat and bought it -- despite my dire warnings. That boat had many prior and no doubt expensive if DIY alterations which made it no longer a boat alike what the original designer intended. The interior was filled with "stuff" so I guess my friend thought he was gonna make out like people who buy the contents of a storage unit and find an unexpected cache of ___.

He acted like this poor example of a boat was the "last Rolex" too.

[jmschmidt]

Sorry but you are beyond help on this one. Get out of Italy as soon as you can and write off your sunk costs. The Italian legal system will make a monkey out of you. Remember the Seattle girl who was accused of murdering her British roommate will living in Italy to learn Italian. They locked her up for years and tortured her with trial after trial even though they had captured, tried, convicted and imprisoned the real murderer who was an acquittance of the girl and her dead roommate. It's all about the European "Git America Mentality."

[Dooglas]

Pay the surveyor. You had a verbal contract with him. He fullfilled his side of the agreement. You ignored everything he told you, and now you don't like the consequences of your actions. Surely not his fault. You are the screwup in this story from every possible perspective.